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View Full Version : Andrew Maguire and the LBMA what happened to that story?


Bring the Gold
09-29-2010, 05:06 PM
As many know on here Andrew Maguire was a whistle blower who wanted to testify before the CTFC about metals market manipulation (price suppression). After his interview aired on King World News his car was hit and a driver was arrested. I have not heard any further information on this matter.

Does anyone have any new information regarding this?

stag15
09-29-2010, 05:37 PM
As many know on here Andrew Maguire was a whistle blower who wanted to testify before the CTFC about metals market manipulation (price suppression). After his interview aired on King World News his car was hit and a driver was arrested. I have not heard any further information on this matter.

Does anyone have any new information regarding this?

I think he got hit by a car and killed.

TedNugget
09-29-2010, 05:45 PM
But his paranoia meter has broken with that hit and run.

Topped out at 127.
(That's 127 layers of tin foil minimum.)

silvereye
09-29-2010, 05:57 PM
I believe he and his wife went to the hospital and were released either that day or the next. He went into hiding for awhile.
SE

Sabremesh
09-29-2010, 07:00 PM
I think we have to conclude this particular story was grade A bullshit from someone with an over-fertile imagination. However, that doesn't mean gold and silver aren't massively manipulated - they are. And holders of physical will reap incalculable rewards in the long run.

mrgneiss
09-29-2010, 07:04 PM
I believe he and his wife went to the hospital and were released either that day or the next. He went into hiding for awhile.
SE

He's getting advice from Salman Rushdie now.

mrgneiss
09-29-2010, 07:04 PM
I think we have to conclude this particular story was grade A bullshit from someone with an over-fertile imagination. However, that doesn't mean gold and silver aren't massively manipulated - they are. And holders of physical will reap incalculable rewards in the long run.

No, its true, it was in the regular news in London.

Sabremesh
09-29-2010, 07:07 PM
No, its true, it was in the regular news in London.

I know that, but why haven't we heard anything about it since? No police report, no press release from Maguire, nothing. He seems to have disappeared of the face of the earth. The whole thing does not add up.

ray1268
09-29-2010, 09:22 PM
I think we have to conclude this particular story was grade A bullshit from someone with an over-fertile imagination. However, that doesn't mean gold and silver aren't massively manipulated - they are. And holders of physical will reap incalculable rewards in the long run.

It is obvious that you ddid not list to the Mar 23rd CFTC hearing . He sent emails to the CFTC before the manipulation was going to happen . Also when it was happening and after it happened . I do not understand your logic.

Ray1268

silvereye
09-29-2010, 09:39 PM
The report from the NY Post.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/business/jpmorgan_chase_story_in_uk_DsMN4PnXFoQG5KdevIsQ7N

Andrew is alive and well and was in Las Vegas in July. Perhaps he was visiting our own Got Goldies?:)
http://www.traddr.com/profiles/blogs/andrew-maguire-silver-trader
SE

DayStar
09-29-2010, 10:12 PM
I think we have to conclude this particular story was grade A bullshit from someone with an over-fertile imagination. However, that doesn't mean gold and silver aren't massively manipulated - they are. And holders of physical will reap incalculable rewards in the long run.

It would be interesting to know how you arrived at that conclusion.

DayStar

Txtraveler28
09-29-2010, 10:27 PM
I think we have to conclude this particular story was grade A bullshit from someone with an over-fertile imagination. However, that doesn't mean gold and silver aren't massively manipulated - they are. And holders of physical will reap incalculable rewards in the long run.

The fact that the CFTC is corrupt has nothing to do with him not being a legit whistle blower.
You obviously didnt follow the entire story.

Bring the Gold
09-29-2010, 10:59 PM
I know that, but why haven't we heard anything about it since? No police report, no press release from Maguire, nothing. He seems to have disappeared of the face of the earth. The whole thing does not add up.
Funny, I came to the opposite conclusion. It appears to me that the hit and run achieved precisely the goal intended, that is it intimidated him into silence. The lack of a police report about such a widely reported crime, with no identification of the perpetrator only adds fuel to that sort of speculation.

Not sure how you can come to the conclusion you did...

GoldNuggetBug
09-29-2010, 11:15 PM
I know that, but why haven't we heard anything about it since? No police report, no press release from Maguire, nothing. He seems to have disappeared of the face of the earth. The whole thing does not add up.

Thank you for your view, please find below link to refresh what happen!

http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2010/3/30_Andrew_Maguire_%26_Adrian_Douglass.html Video

http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/G+_Articles/Entries/2010/3/30_A_LONDON_TRADER_WALKS_THE_CFTC_THROUGH_A_SILVER _MANIPULATION_IN_ADVANCEBy_Andrew_Maguire.html Email

torpedoman
09-30-2010, 09:41 PM
He's getting advice from Salman Rushdie now.

maybe jimmy hoffa

DayStar
09-30-2010, 10:38 PM
maybe jimmy hoffa

If ole Jimmy could speak, reckon what he would say? :p

DayStar

HardlyPeeved
09-30-2010, 11:24 PM
Didn't LBMA go "data dark" and basically clam-up after the imbroglio ?

https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=67211

Sabremesh
10-01-2010, 04:49 AM
Funny, I came to the opposite conclusion. It appears to me that the hit and run achieved precisely the goal intended, that is it intimidated him into silence. The lack of a police report about such a widely reported crime, with no identification of the perpetrator only adds fuel to that sort of speculation.

Not sure how you can come to the conclusion you did...

You paint a plausible scenario, but it is nevertheless a bald hypothesis. At this point, there is a distinct lack of compelling evidence that Maguire was a victim of attempted murder (as opposed to near-miss traffic accident), and no evidence that this hit-and-run was related to his exposure of JPM silver manipulation.

We agree that this story fizzled out, and it may be because the entire Metropolitan Police are controlled by JP Morgan. Alternatively, a minor traffic accident could have been embellished by a self-promoting individual that the police didn't take seriously. I believe your conclusion bears the greater burden of proof - and yet none is offered.

criticalfriend
10-01-2010, 05:44 AM
If lightening strikes twice, there's a story.

christogl
10-01-2010, 10:24 AM
I notice whenever I hear bill murphy he's always including this 'incredible' piece of evidence. The problem is that his definition of evidence would never make it in a court of law. I just don't understand GATA at all. Rather than focusing on factual information regarding a monopoly on metals, they resort to all the tin foil/conspiratorial BS that makes no sense. Give it a rest already.

DayStar
10-01-2010, 10:33 AM
I notice whenever I hear bill murphy he's always including this 'incredible' piece of evidence. The problem is that his definition of evidence would never make it in a court of law. I just don't understand GATA at all. Rather than focusing on factual information regarding a monopoly on metals, they resort to all the tin foil/conspiratorial BS that makes no sense. Give it a rest already.

I fail to see how a trader that can stand in group of observers and call the market with 100% accuracy before it happen is not evidence of a conspiracy. It is impossible for someone to guess and get it right 100% of the time. Only someone with inside information of the intentions of powers capable of moving the market could have done what he did. The fact that they had intended to do what they did, and they advertised that intention to insiders is what a conspiracy is defined to be. Then two days later someone appears to have either tried to kill or to scare the whistle blower and the cops protected the perp and the whistle blower goes into hiding. These facts are explainable in terms of a cabal of bankers that were annoyed at the whistle blower's expose of their scheme and intended to shut him up, and they succeeded. He is now nowhere to be found. Perhaps he joined Jimmy Hoffa. Who knows?

DayStar

Bring the Gold
10-01-2010, 10:44 AM
You paint a plausible scenario, but it is nevertheless a bald hypothesis. At this point, there is a distinct lack of compelling evidence that Maguire was a victim of attempted murder (as opposed to near-miss traffic accident), and no evidence that this hit-and-run was related to his exposure of JPM silver manipulation.

We agree that this story fizzled out, and it may be because the entire Metropolitan Police are controlled by JP Morgan. Alternatively, a minor traffic accident could have been embellished by a self-promoting individual that the police didn't take seriously. I believe your conclusion bears the greater burden of proof - and yet none is offered.
Ok, keep trusting in power and not put two and two together. See where that gets you. If you don't understand how Central Banks and money creation work then you won't understand why metals are such a threat to that. If you don't understand the private nature of Central Banks for profit and their relationship to banks like JP Morgan, then you won't see the profit and control motives. That's on you to do the research. Good luck.

Also, only someone who doesn't understand how pyramidal power structures work (aka how all organizations are run) would think that EVERY MEMBER of the metropolitan police need be on JP Morgan's payroll to make a story go away. Choke points in the power structure allow a single individual to thwart the investigations of multiple lower tier employees. Again, that's on you to do some research. I'm not going to do your thinking for you. If you want to trust in Central Banks and LBMA/COMEX that's your prerogative.

Bring the Gold
10-01-2010, 10:49 AM
I fail to see how a trader that can stand in group of observers and call the market with 100% accuracy before it happen is not evidence of a conspiracy. It is impossible for someone to guess and get it right 100% of the time. Only someone with inside information of the intentions of powers capable of moving the market could have done what he did. The fact that they had intended to do what they did, and they advertised that intention to insiders is what a conspiracy is defined to be. Then two days later someone appears to have either tried to kill or to scare the whistle blower and the cops protected the perp and the whistle blower goes into hiding. These facts are explainable in terms of a cabal of bankers that were annoyed at the whistle blower's expose of their scheme and intended to shut him up, and they succeeded. He is now nowhere to be found. Perhaps he joined Jimmy Hoffa. Who knows?

DayStar
That's not true he gave a speech in Las Vegas in the summer as someone else pointed out. I agree with what you said about his unveiling of conspiracy. Others just want to put fingers in their ears.

http://www.aspencountry.com/assets/product_images/product_lib/29000-29999/29586.jpg

Bring the Gold
10-01-2010, 10:49 AM
I notice whenever I hear bill murphy he's always including this 'incredible' piece of evidence. The problem is that his definition of evidence would never make it in a court of law. I just don't understand GATA at all. Rather than focusing on factual information regarding a monopoly on metals, they resort to all the tin foil/conspiratorial BS that makes no sense. Give it a rest already.
If it doesn't make sense to you, then you haven't DYODD. Sorry, but you haven't.

Bring the Gold
10-01-2010, 10:54 AM
Remember folks Central Banks always are on the up and up.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE68S01020100930

(Reuters) - To the outside world, the Federal Reserve is an impenetrable fortress. But former employees and big investors are privy to some of its secrets -- and that access can be lucrative.
On August 19, just nine days after the U.S. central bank surprised financial markets by deciding to buy more bonds to support a flagging economy, former Fed governor Larry Meyer sent a note to clients of his consulting firm with a breakdown of the policy-setting meeting.

The minutes from that same gathering of the powerful Federal Open Market Committee, or FOMC, are made available to the public -- but only after a three-week lag. So Meyer's clients were provided with a glimpse into what the Fed was thinking well ahead of other investors.

His note cited the views of "most members" and "many members" as he detailed increasingly sharp divisions among the officials who determine the nation's monetary policy.

Yes, clearly no corruption at Central Banks. Yes, clearly the Central Banks are trustworthy entities. :rolleyes:

Sabremesh
10-01-2010, 12:30 PM
Ok, keep trusting in power and not put two and two together.
....

If you want to trust in Central Banks and LBMA/COMEX that's your prerogative.

Right. How is it when you put 2 + 2 together, the result is 671 and a straw man?

Bring the Gold
10-01-2010, 12:35 PM
Right. How is it when you put 2 + 2 together, the result is 671 and a straw man?
Could you show me the strawman please?

Bring the Gold
10-01-2010, 12:50 PM
Could you show me the strawman please?
Perhaps you are trying to claim that this is a strawman:

Ok, keep trusting in power and not put two and two together. If you want to trust in Central Banks and LBMA/COMEX that's your prerogative.

It's not as you said this:

You paint a plausible scenario, but it is nevertheless a bald hypothesis. At this point, there is a distinct lack of compelling evidence that Maguire was a victim of attempted murder (as opposed to near-miss traffic accident), and no evidence that this hit-and-run was related to his exposure of JPM silver manipulation.

We agree that this story fizzled out, and it may be because the entire Metropolitan Police are controlled by JP Morgan. Alternatively, a minor traffic accident could have been embellished by a self-promoting individual that the police didn't take seriously. I believe your conclusion bears the greater burden of proof - and yet none is offered.

The underlined is an actual strawman as I never said any such thing. The bolded shows IMPLICITLY that you are trusting the LBMA over Maguire's story. If you are referring to the Central Bank and COMEX portion of my statement then it is a gap in knowledge on your part as it is clear you are not familiar with their interconnectedness.

Therefore the strawman maker is you and not me.

mojo1
10-03-2010, 04:24 AM
This is the first paragraph of a followup piece from about a month ago in the Huffington Post.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-pappalardo/gold-silver-trading-bigge_b_706594.html

Gold-and-Silver Trading Biggest Scam in History, Financial Armageddon Could Result

For those with a good memory, this is the promised follow up to my piece on the manipulation of the silver market and its very scary ramifications. Before we get into the possible end-of-civilization-as-we-know-it details, a recap is in order. Andrew Maguire of London blew the whistle on JP Morgan Chase's very likely profound manipulation of the silver market to the CFTC. As financial government watchdog agencies are wont to do these days, they did their best to sweep it all under the carpet. How the SEC handled Bernie Madoff's Ponzi scheme is a prime example of this. This matter is not a Ponzi scheme, but it is the largest scam ever, going into the trillions of dollars territory. But back to Maguire, who was quite determined to clean up the business of commodities trading. He goes public with powerful compelling evidence of JP Morgan Chase's manipulation of the silver market. This happens on a Kingsworld radio show. The next day someone tries to kill him by ramming a car into Maguire's car. Maguire and his wife, who was also in the car, are hurt pretty bad but survive. After this, in their infinite wisdom, the commodities watchdog the CFTC decides to have a meeting with most of the key players in commodities trading but exclude Maguire from attending. At this meeting a secret is revealed that could easily tear apart the fabric of our barely functional financial system. The secret is that for every 100 ounces of gold and for every 100 ounces of silver traded on paper there is only one actual ounce of gold and one actual once of silver to back up these trades. Given that yearly there are trillions of gold and silver traded on paper, this is the literally biggest scam in the history of scams. Now the guy who let this cat out of the bag didn't think it was a big deal, using the logic that as long as the buyer was paid the value of his purchase at the time he wants to sell it doesn't matter if his purchase was backed up by an actual commodity. This cavalier attitude does seem to reflect the mindset of people working in our financial system that everything is smoke and mirrors except the money being exchanged........

GoldNuggetBug
10-03-2010, 07:02 AM
This is a followup piece from about a month ago in the Huffington Post.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-pappalardo/gold-silver-trading-bigge_b_706594.html

Gold-and-Silver Trading Biggest Scam in History, Financial Armageddon Could Result

For those with a good memory, this is the promised follow up to my piece on the manipulation of the silver market and its very scary ramifications. Before we get into the possible end-of-civilization-as-we-know-it details, a recap is in order. Andrew Maguire of London blew the whistle on JP Morgan Chase's very likely profound manipulation of the silver market to the CFTC. As financial government watchdog agencies are wont to do these days, they did their best to sweep it all under the carpet. How the SEC handled Bernie Madoff's Ponzi scheme is a prime example of this. This matter is not a Ponzi scheme, but it is the largest scam ever, going into the trillions of dollars territory. But back to Maguire, who was quite determined to clean up the business of commodities trading. He goes public with powerful compelling evidence of JP Morgan Chase's manipulation of the silver market. This happens on a Kingsworld radio show. The next day someone tries to kill him by ramming a car into Maguire's car. Maguire and his wife, who was also in the car, are hurt pretty bad but survive. After this, in their infinite wisdom, the commodities watchdog the CFTC decides to have a meeting with most of the key players in commodities trading but exclude Maguire from attending. At this meeting a secret is revealed that could easily tear apart the fabric of our barely functional financial system. The secret is that for every 100 ounces of gold and for every 100 ounces of silver traded on paper there is only one actual ounce of gold and one actual once of silver to back up these trades. Given that yearly there are trillions of gold and silver traded on paper, this is the literally biggest scam in the history of scams. Now the guy who let this cat out of the bag didn't think it was a big deal, using the logic that as long as the buyer was paid the value of his purchase at the time he wants to sell it doesn't matter if his purchase was backed up by an actual commodity. This cavalier attitude does seem to reflect the mindset of people working in our financial system that everything is smoke and mirrors except the money being exchanged........


I totally agree with you!
I found that one way to help other into buying physical after all fact are lay out, they understand that they are buying physical at a discount rate of 100:1 as there are as many 100 to 1 paper to physical gold!

I call it subsidy! Till the paper holder wake up what they purchase are subsidizing physical gold/silver buyer!

Till the ratio back to 1:1 I am buying as much as I can!

Just to show how fraud can cultivate in our so call democracies have a look at the link below!

http://video.godlikeproductions.com/video/Fraud_Factories_Rep_Alan_Grayson_Explains_the_Fore closure_Fraud_Crisis (http://video.godlikeproductions.com/video/Fraud_Factories_Rep_Alan_Grayson_Explains_the_Fore closure_Fraud_Crisis)

So be happy while you still can buy physical gold at 100 times cheaper from its real price!

mtacchi
10-03-2010, 07:16 AM
So true.. if everyone went out and bought 100 oz of physical silver we could see an end to this game..

silverwater
10-03-2010, 10:55 AM
Andrew Maguire is indeed quite knowledgeable, he is going to appear at a conference in Las Vegas with Coghlan Capital

http://coghlancapital.com/2010conf-agenda

CFTC silver whistleblower, Andrew Maguire, will talk at length about how you can profit from predictable moves in the markets. Drawing on his 40 years of experience Andrew will explain the key dates and times to look for entries in both Gold and Silver, describing the methods he uses to extract profits. Andrew has nearly 20 years specializing in trading solely Gold and Silver and so this is a unique opportunity to see him speak in public.

golditiki
10-03-2010, 11:19 AM
You paint a plausible scenario, but it is nevertheless a bald hypothesis. At this point, there is a distinct lack of compelling evidence that Maguire was a victim of attempted murder (as opposed to near-miss traffic accident), and no evidence that this hit-and-run was related to his exposure of JPM silver manipulation.

We agree that this story fizzled out, and it may be because the entire Metropolitan Police are controlled by JP Morgan. Alternatively, a minor traffic accident could have been embellished by a self-promoting individual that the police didn't take seriously. I believe your conclusion bears the greater burden of proof - and yet none is offered.

Yes the man is propbably now lobotomized and walks around with a happy grin on his face....
NEVER trust the SYSTEM , Police, the legal system and media is manned with derivatives and clones of the PTB...

NEVER TRUST POWER

Golditiki+++

mojo1
10-03-2010, 11:51 AM
I totally agree with you!
I found that one way to help other into buying physical after all fact are lay out, they understand that they are buying physical at a discount rate of 100:1 as there are as many 100 to 1 paper to physical gold!

I call it subsidy! Till the paper holder wake up what they purchase are subsidizing physical gold/silver buyer!

Till the ratio back to 1:1 I am buying as much as I can!

Just to show how fraud can cultivate in our so call democracies have a look at the link below!

http://video.godlikeproductions.com/video/Fraud_Factories_Rep_Alan_Grayson_Explains_the_Fore closure_Fraud_Crisis (http://video.godlikeproductions.com/video/Fraud_Factories_Rep_Alan_Grayson_Explains_the_Fore closure_Fraud_Crisis)

So be happy while you still can buy physical gold at 100 times cheaper from its real price!

True GNB. Most don't or won't understand that gold/silver are heavily subsidized and until this stops gold/silver can never find an equilibrium price. I will continue to accumilate physical as long as this last.

I hope you read the whole article at the link, I only posted the 1st paragragh.

Gold-and-Silver Trading Biggest Scam in History, Financial Armageddon Could Result

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-pappalardo/gold-silver-trading-bigge_b_706594.html

DayStar
10-03-2010, 02:01 PM
That's not true he gave a speech in Las Vegas in the summer as someone else pointed out.

Sorry, BTG. I read on this thread that he had gone into hiding and didn't see the one about him speaking at a conference. My bad.

DayStar

jxrjxr
10-03-2010, 05:01 PM
there are as many 100 to 1 paper to physical gold! ... So be happy while you still can buy physical gold at 100 times cheaper from its real price!

80% of gold produced each year goes into jewelry/industry/dental. Only 20% goes into investment. Even if all the investment gold in the world disappeared, we'd still have only a 20% drop in the supply of gold. Even if all the paper gold turned out to be backed by nothing, we'd still have plenty of gold. So, I wouldn't get too excited about a 100 fold increase in gold price.

I also don't understand how the COMEX/LBMA could get away with a 100:1 ratio of paper gold to physical gold. All that it would take to wipe that out is greater than 1% of demand for physical delivery. Considering jewelry/industry/dental demand will ask for physical delivery, and they account for 80% of demand, a 100:1 ratio seems impossible. But maybe I'm missing something.

Sabremesh
10-03-2010, 07:38 PM
80% of gold produced each year goes into jewelry/industry/dental. Only 20% goes into investment.

A little bit of research which make you realise that the figures you quote cannot possibly be accurate. Some things you may want to consider:


Nobody is buying jewellery at current prices
Nobody has gold fillings anymore.
Industry uses piddling amount of gold, because for virtually all gold's applications, there exists something better and much cheaper.
China, the world's largest gold producer is hoarding everything it produces
National Mints have been running out of coins and massively inflating premiums
Physical gold funds have been accumulating large quantities


Don't come back saying your source is the World Gold Council. Do some more research and find out why the WGC isn't quite what you think it is.

mtacchi
10-03-2010, 07:45 PM
1. My family in Italy has a jewellery production shop that is having its best year ever. I was in Dubai last week, and the jewellery shops were 3 deep to buy. Here in HK, shops are as busy as they've been since I arrived 6 years ago.

2. I know a number of people who've received gold filling recently. My dentist has gold available and offers it as options.

That said, I agree with the rest of your statement. As for the numbers, who knows.. but people are still buying and using it.

Geezerman
10-03-2010, 08:44 PM
Hasn't gold been the commodity of choice for hundreds of years when people lose faith in their currency? If, and sure it's an if, we continue to see the world debase their currencies, we should see gold rise just on that.
If we get the QE2, that should spike gold quite well.

GoldNuggetBug
10-03-2010, 09:25 PM
80% of gold produced each year goes into jewelry/industry/dental. Only 20% goes into investment. Even if all the investment gold in the world disappeared, we'd still have only a 20% drop in the supply of gold. Even if all the paper gold turned out to be backed by nothing, we'd still have plenty of gold. So, I wouldn't get too excited about a 100 fold increase in gold price.

I also don't understand how the COMEX/LBMA could get away with a 100:1 ratio of paper gold to physical gold. All that it would take to wipe that out is greater than 1% of demand for physical delivery. Considering jewelry/industry/dental demand will ask for physical delivery, and they account for 80% of demand, a 100:1 ratio seems impossible. But maybe I'm missing something.

Thank you for your first post and welcome!
As other already point out what you post are not true, just to give an idea of gold as investment is 100 times more from they have in hand! As there 100 time paper investment, if you say 20% investment is a drop in the ocean, why they need to create 100:1 ration paper investment to real physical gold. I hope you can see my point!

So get your physical in hand before the subsidize is over.

GoldNuggetBug
10-03-2010, 09:31 PM
Hasn't gold been the commodity of choice for hundreds of years when people lose faith in their currency? If, and sure it's an if, we continue to see the world debase their currencies, we should see gold rise just on that.
If we get the QE2, that should spike gold quite well.

Physical gold/silver had been real money for thousands of years, even today if an oz in Timbuktu stills the same oz in Malaysia and no different oz in London. The scale and measurement are the same, there not an oz of exchange different, that what real money, same value where ever you go! Not what CB, FRB, BOJ or RB wants it to be.

We call China Currency manipulation but we can intervene what the different!

jxrjxr
10-03-2010, 09:53 PM
A little bit of research which make you realise that the figures you quote cannot possibly be accurate. Some things you may want to consider...Don't come back saying your source is the World Gold Council.

What do you think are some trustworthy sources on the issue of the composition of gold demand? I want to avoid the trouble of digging up statistics and having them dismissed with the gut feeling that "nobody is buying jewelry anymore". Why do you distrust the World Gold Council's numbers?

Thank you for your first post and welcome!

Thanks. I have read these forums with quite a bit of interest and I look forward to joining the discussion here. I try to be a friendly person and unfortunately I think my first post was a bit adversarial. As a big holder of physical gold, I actually have a lot to gain from paper gold turning out to be a sham, so I'm definitely open to hearing reasons about why physical gold prices will go up.

As other already point out what you post are not true, just to give an idea of gold as investment is 100 times more from they have in hand! As there 100 time paper investment, if you say 20% investment is a drop in the ocean, why they need to create 100:1 ration paper investment to real physical gold. I hope you can see my point!

Sorry, I don't think I get your point. Could you rephrase? Are you saying that paper gold makes up way more than 20% of perceived gold supplies?

Dolomite
10-03-2010, 09:58 PM
True GNB. Most don't or won't understand that gold/silver are heavily subsidized and until this stops gold/silver can never find an equilibrium price. I will continue to accumilate physical as long as this last.

I hope you read the whole article at the link, I only posted the 1st paragragh.

Gold-and-Silver Trading Biggest Scam in History, Financial Armageddon Could Result

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/tom-pappalardo/gold-silver-trading-bigge_b_706594.html

Interesting read, thanks for that.

mojo1
10-03-2010, 09:58 PM
As a big holder of physical gold, I actually have a lot to gain from paper gold turning out to be a sham, so I'm definitely open to hearing reasons about why physical gold prices will go up.

jxrjxr why are you a big holder of physical gold?

GoldNuggetBug
10-03-2010, 09:59 PM
Sorry, I don't think I get your point. Could you rephrase? Are you saying that paper gold makes up way more than 20% of perceived gold supplies?

as what you say gold investment percentage @20% of gold production, why they need to leverage paper 100 to 1, if the gold investment are very little why not make 1:1 just the sum can not be correct, check out the volume of trade and compare with physical production.

jxrjxr
10-03-2010, 10:53 PM
jxrjxr why are you a big holder of physical gold?

I'm a holder of gold because I think the price will go up as a combination of increased demand and inflation of fiat currencies. Right now I go with physical gold because I like to have it on hand and in hand. I do have some gold fever. I like looking at my gold and feeling its weight. Past a certain point though, I am going to go into paper gold (probably SGOL) just because it gets too risky to have a bunch of gold at your house and your safety deposit box. SGOL is also easier to sell, so it'll probably be what I sell first when I start using up savings instead of building up savings.

as what you say gold investment percentage @20% of gold production, why they need to leverage paper 100 to 1, if the gold investment are very little why not make 1:1 just the sum can not be correct, check out the volume of trade and compare with physical production.

Here is my interpretation of what you're saying: Since investment gold only makes 20% of gold supplies, the 100:1 paper gold to physical investment gold is necessary to significantly affect the price. Looking at production numbers, there is no way COMEX/LBMA have as much gold as they promise.

Assuming my interpretation of what you said is correct: Aren't you still assuming what you're trying to prove, which is the 100:1 ratio? Gold is not destroyed, so the gold that the COMEX/LBMA claim to have doesn't have to have been produced recently. In principle, all gold ever mined is up for trade.

There's about 165,000 tons of gold that have been mined. How much gold does COMEX and LBMA claim to have? What percentage of that gold is delivered every month? I've tried to look at COMEX reports before, but couldn't make much sense of them...

About AG
10-04-2010, 07:07 AM
the 100:1 paper gold to physical investment gold

Just a reminder for everyone, that "100:1 paper:physical" ratio was completely made up.

It gets very complicated. At the CFTC meeting in March, 2010, it was stated that 100s of ounces of paper trade for every ounce delivered on futures markets. That is how futures markets normally work (although the numbers in other markets are probably somewhat lower). That is the nature of having lots of speculators.

As for unallocated accounts (where the 100s:1 ratio often gets incorrectly applied, as 100:1 without the "s"), it was discovered that unallocated accounts are not always 100% backed with metal. In some cases, it is 100% backed; in others, it is 0% backed. But whether the average is 100:1, 10:1, or 1:1 is completely unknown. Anyone stating 100:1 is just guessing, and is definitely a very liberal guess (e.g. we know that Kitco and Perth Mint claim to be 100% backed).

Bring the Gold
10-04-2010, 03:24 PM
I understand that what Christian said is somewhat misinterpreted or has been as people are mistaking volume of trades for actual gold/silver paper position. However, the paper position clearly vastly outnumbers the ability of the clearinghouses to meet demand. Also check out the incredible short positions compared to other "commodities". The short positions to me show that silver and gold are seen as monetary metals and the bane of fiat.

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_H2DePAZe2gA/TF2TOpcG3pI/AAAAAAAAOHQ/IvV3GSi_kkY/s1600/Days-of-Production-orig.gif