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wgadget
10-15-2010, 08:36 AM
Weigh in.

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=169272

Tidbit:

With Gold on a tear of late (along with silver) we're once again being treated to various pundits (most of whom have some sort of financial interest in selling you something) attempting to get you to put a substantial part of your wealth into these metals, arguing that it's a hedge against "hyperinflation."

dovik69
10-15-2010, 08:57 AM
yeah, it's a bubble .......... it should fall with the dollar!!!!:rolleyes:

usc96
10-15-2010, 09:11 AM
Weigh in.

http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=169272

Tidbit:

With Gold on a tear of late (along with silver) we're once again being treated to various pundits (most of whom have some sort of financial interest in selling you something) attempting to get you to put a substantial part of your wealth into these metals, arguing that it's a hedge against "hyperinflation."

He compares holding gold post collapse to possession of a stolen firearm???? WTF?

doobsta
10-15-2010, 09:31 AM
The article was ok, I don't agree with him but he could manage to fool some "law abiding citizens" to thinking he knows what he is talking about.

The way I read it, seems like Deninger, loves paying taxes and bending over at every chance to lick boots. Equating owning Physical, to be a criminal.

The logic is impressive...

Nevertheless, the comments section below surprised me, seems like his readers are waking up?

Somehow I doubt it, probably a bunch of kitco board members that replied lol

GoldvsDollars
10-15-2010, 10:08 AM
He compares holding gold post collapse to possession of a stolen firearm???? WTF?

Okay, I LOL at reading that, and being declared basically as criminals for going underground and dealing with one's "gold" as one would do so with a stolen firearm - still laughing right now after I read that - because he simply WANTS everyone to be TAXED for their gold :rolleyes: and can't get beyond that people will barter and find inventive ways to use their coinage.

OldPocketChange
10-15-2010, 10:17 AM
He lost me when as a law abiding citizen he did not mention paying taxes when he trades his hard assets having utility value for something else. Or he only plans to trade them for items of less value than when he purchased the said hard assets.

Ortofon
10-15-2010, 10:25 AM
If they make owning gold illegal, I could see it being quite difficult to barter with. How are you going to post on Craig's List or find like-minded people to deal with if it's illegal?

I'd say it's closer to prohibition or the war on drugs than a stolen firearm though. Joe six pack isn't going to barter for gold under that scenario.

ingots
10-15-2010, 10:28 AM
hmmm but paying capital gains on bonds and tbills is better?

or different? somehow? i guess paying less tax on an investment that makes next to nothing is better then paying cap gains on a metal thats really paying for it self.

Tungsten Trader
10-15-2010, 10:49 AM
If they make owning gold illegal, I could see it being quite difficult to barter with. How are you going to post on Craig's List or find like-minded people to deal with if it's illegal?

You don't see mary jane on fleabay or craigslist either but no shortage of buyers and sellers. The network is alive and well..

Ykoun Cronleius
10-15-2010, 11:38 AM
I love how he chooses those non inflation adjusted charts. Why not choose a chart like this to show the Gold "bubble".

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_1V7wnZxPqok/S9VVq1Grr2I/AAAAAAAAMuQ/KpQUtOVebws/s1600/gold+bubble+2.gif''

It also baffles me that Karl works on exposing FRAUD in nearly every aspect of our Govt and economy, and yet there surely can't be any FRAUD in the Silver & Gold markets. Doesn't Karl understand that Silver & Gold are REAL MONEY. The kind of MONEY that the ELITES own. The kind of MONEY that is a MAJOR THREAT to the Govt mandated FIAT CURRENCY we're forced to use? Do you think it's in the Govts best interest to suppress the price of Silver & Gold Karl? Wake the F up! The Gold vigilantes will have their day.

Silver & Gold are the MONEY of FREE MEN.
Govt mandated FIAT CURRENCIES are the "MONEY" of SLAVES.

eagleeagle
10-15-2010, 12:44 PM
Why not choose a chart like this to show the Gold "bubble".

That's a great chart! Bubble, my ass.

Carpenter
10-15-2010, 12:50 PM
Consider the instance of a stolen gun. If you posses one, what it's worth depends greatly on who you intend to sell it to.

Or use it against.

Ykoun Cronleius
10-15-2010, 01:10 PM
http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/KWN_DailyWeb/Entries/2010/10/15_Richard_Russell_-_Wild_Speculation_in_Gold_Lies_Ahead.html

With gold hitting new all-time highs, in his latest commentary, the Godfather of newsletter writers Richard Russell stated

“The negative comments about gold will only serve to make the gold bull market that much stronger. In this business, there is nothing more powerful than a primary bull market that has been denigrated, spat at, and held back for years.”

October 15, 2010

Russell continues:

“I learned from George Schaefer that big bull markets almost always end with a speculative explosion. We had not seen that kind of action in the bull market that started in June, 1949. I was convinced that a speculative third phase of the bull market lay somewhere ahead. For that reason I was convinced that the bull market was not over.”

“Today I am taking the same stand regarding the gold bull market. The gold bull market will not end with a fizzle and a whimper. It will end with intense speculation and widespread interest from the funds and the public. We haven't seen that kind of activity yet, but I'm convinced that a period of wild speculation in gold lies somewhere ahead.”

“This is why I continue to beg my subscribers to load up with gold. As I see it, we are nearing a period of intense speculation that will be beyond anything seen before by the last three generations of Americans. Ironically, more money (will be) made in the final explosion in gold than was made during the first two phases combined.”

“Great bull market are seen maybe once or twice in a lifetime. The current "stealth" gold bull market has sneaked up on most Americans. The very phrase, "gold bull market" is sneered at by most analysts today. In fact, most of the comments on gold today come in the form of warnings; "Gold is too high." "Gold is in a bubble." "Gold will sink back below 1000." "Gold is a fool's play."

“Nonsense. Gold is moving ever-closer to it's climactic speculative third phase. The negative comments about gold will only serve to make the gold bull market that much stronger. In this business, there is nothing more powerful than a primary bull market that has been denigrated, spat at, and held back for years.”

As long as we continue to have the mainstream media negative on gold, it will keep adding fuel to this bull market.

Eric King

KingWorldNews.com

Maybe Karl Denninger is an agent for the Govt after all? Talking Gold down down down... Good for the Gold Bull Market. We'll know when we hit the Gold Bubble peak when Karl owns a couple Krugerrands.

Canudigit
10-15-2010, 01:33 PM
Something about how if you want to hold tangibles in this environment, you should buy machinery...think I'll stick with Willie and Sinclair as my gold analysts.

Jayhawk
10-15-2010, 02:26 PM
Seems like a smart guy, but he's been dead wrong on gold and is filled with pride so will not admit when he's wrong. He'd rather go down with the ship fighting gold tooth and nail. Let me know when he's bullish on pm's, I'll sell then.

solderguy1
10-15-2010, 02:56 PM
Karl Denninger, Dec 31 2008:
Precious metals will not be a safe haven. The callers for $1600 and above on gold will be wrong, unless there is a major military conflict. I do not rate that probability as particularly high, but it is an event (along with a major terrorism incident - nuclear or biochemical - that would cause a rocket shot in Gold prices), so I am hedging that call. The risk of this sort of "response" to the economic crisis is, however, real, and will rise significantly going into 2010 and beyond. We'll revisit this one (a major war) next year.
http://ticker-classics.denninger.net/archives/2008/12.html

POG Dec 31 2008: $865

POG Oct 15, 2010 (noonish) $1366

Don't wait too long to revisit Karl, the price may go up :p

goldendaisy
10-15-2010, 03:18 PM
greetings,

there is a ton of stuff showing up in the coin shops. people are bringing stuff in like crazy to sell.

think of it like this....gold and silver jewelry, coins, and whatever has been sitting around collecting dust for forever. when all of that starts showing up, which will take a long long long time, there is/will be no shortage at all.

the guys who scream shortage are the profit takers who just want to fleece you.

really, a little piece of gold at 1400 is ridiculous. silver at even twenty is even more ridiculous. china alone has hundreds of millions of tons of the stuff squirrled away from the old days. same with americans. saw one silver bar at the coin shop with dirt all over it cause it had been dug up.

so much stuff out there it's ridiculous. keep an even keel here, folks. there just trying to blow the "next" bubble after the housing bubble. and how did that one turn out for ya?

Mats Wheellander
10-15-2010, 03:44 PM
Instead of admitting he was wrong on the run up Karl want's to restore his reputation by calling correctly the collapse.



Vanity, the Devil's favourite sin.

Ykoun Cronleius
10-15-2010, 04:34 PM
greetings,

there is a ton of stuff showing up in the coin shops. people are bringing stuff in like crazy to sell.

think of it like this....gold and silver jewelry, coins, and whatever has been sitting around collecting dust for forever. when all of that starts showing up, which will take a long long long time, there is/will be no shortage at all.

the guys who scream shortage are the profit takers who just want to fleece you.

really, a little piece of gold at 1400 is ridiculous. silver at even twenty is even more ridiculous. china alone has hundreds of millions of tons of the stuff squirrled away from the old days. same with americans. saw one silver bar at the coin shop with dirt all over it cause it had been dug up.

so much stuff out there it's ridiculous. keep an even keel here, folks. there just trying to blow the "next" bubble after the housing bubble. and how did that one turn out for ya?

This is what typically happens. 99% of the people sell when they should be buying and buy when they should be selling. This is a good sign the Gold Bull Market has a long way to go.

http://www.goldinvestingnews.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/08/gold-bull310x210-300x203.jpg

johndaniels
10-15-2010, 05:21 PM
I love how he chooses those non inflation adjusted charts. Why not choose a chart like this to show the Gold "bubble".


It also baffles me that Karl works on exposing FRAUD in nearly every aspect of our Govt and economy, and yet there surely can't be any FRAUD in the Silver & Gold markets. Doesn't Karl understand that Silver & Gold are REAL MONEY. The kind of MONEY that the ELITES own. The kind of MONEY that is a MAJOR THREAT to the Govt mandated FIAT CURRENCY we're forced to use? Do you think it's in the Govts best interest to suppress the price of Silver & Gold Karl? Wake the F up! The Gold vigilantes will have their day.

Silver & Gold are the MONEY of FREE MEN.
Govt mandated FIAT CURRENCIES are the "MONEY" of SLAVES.

couldn't of said it better myself. spot on.

Numisgold
10-16-2010, 03:12 AM
greetings,

there is a ton of stuff showing up in the coin shops. people are bringing stuff in like crazy to sell.

think of it like this....gold and silver jewelry, coins, and whatever has been sitting around collecting dust for forever. when all of that starts showing up, which will take a long long long time, there is/will be no shortage at all.

the guys who scream shortage are the profit takers who just want to fleece you.

really, a little piece of gold at 1400 is ridiculous. silver at even twenty is even more ridiculous. china alone has hundreds of millions of tons of the stuff squirrled away from the old days. same with americans. saw one silver bar at the coin shop with dirt all over it cause it had been dug up.

so much stuff out there it's ridiculous. keep an even keel here, folks. there just trying to blow the "next" bubble after the housing bubble. and how did that one turn out for ya?

You must have missed the 1977-1980 sell off in silver when tons of silver serving sets and 90% silver coins hit the melting pot. Much of it went out in that round. The only sterling left today is from grandma's set which somehow escaped the 1970's meltings. They haven't made 90% silver coinage since 1964.

Go out and try to mine, refine, assay, and stamp out a one ounce gold coin and then tell us how $1400 makes no sense. You'll spend a lot more than 70 hours ($20/hr) trying to make that happen. The miners dig up tons of raw ore in the most desolate and risky regions just to process a single ounce of gold. Now contemplate 14 $100 Federal Reserve Notes that are backed by nothing and took <30 cents (of your money) to print. Explain to me again which of these you'd want to be holding 2 yrs from today, the "stupid" 1 ounce gold coin or the 14 notes.

Technically, there is no shortage of gold considering 160,000 tons of it supposedly still exists above ground. The shortage is in getting your share of that with less than 1 ounce per person to go around. Hundreds of millions of tons of either/both gold or silver in China's hands alone? In gold that's at least 600X the known above-ground world reserves and 3300X what the central banks "claim" to own. In silver that 100M tons equates to about 80X the highest estimate I can find from any source of the total amount of silver mined in the past 3000 yrs....assuming it's still all existence and none was ever lost or used up. So instead of 3 Olympic sized swimming pools of gold in the world, there are 1100 of them? I think some fact checking is in order. Since the Americans have as much as China you can double all the above numbers again. With the 3-4 major US gold depositories claiming to hold most of the USA's 8100 tons of gold....you would require 36,000-50,000 vaults to hold the "hundreds of millions of tons" of this stuff. So where are all these vaults (approx 1,000 per state) ???

Numisgold

Silverthorn
10-16-2010, 04:54 AM
greetings,

there is a ton of stuff showing up in the coin shops. people are bringing stuff in like crazy to sell.

think of it like this....gold and silver jewelry, coins, and whatever has been sitting around collecting dust for forever. when all of that starts showing up, which will take a long long long time, there is/will be no shortage at all.

the guys who scream shortage are the profit takers who just want to fleece you.

really, a little piece of gold at 1400 is ridiculous. silver at even twenty is even more ridiculous. china alone has hundreds of millions of tons of the stuff squirrled away from the old days. same with americans. saw one silver bar at the coin shop with dirt all over it cause it had been dug up.

so much stuff out there it's ridiculous. keep an even keel here, folks. there just trying to blow the "next" bubble after the housing bubble. and how did that one turn out for ya?

Most likely a lot of retail gold and silver will be melted down into large bars to help clear the squeeze that seems to be under way. Might well end up with a lot less retail stuff around.

GetZeeGold
10-16-2010, 06:54 AM
I let this thread go a couple of days.

One day after Karl gets a little poke on Kitco he comes out swinging at the goldbugs.....bad idea Karl.

In his own words.........you said it Karl I didn't.


Down in the comments section.....

Genesis (http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?user=genesis) <----Dat's Karl
I am getting very close to going "bug-out", converting all to tangible value items, and deciding that right or wrong, I'm gonna live it out where I don't care.

This is getting very close to going completely out of control - it is FAR worse than what was going on with Lehman.
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=169025&page=1

-------------end quote.


I'm looking at a one year chart in gold Karl.....how did we do?

The next time you bring us up....you had better note that.:cool:

You don't understand something Karl. You want the crooks to be rounded up. You want this to get fixed.

That will never happen. This will go on until the wheels come off the wagon. That IS the plan. When that happens there will be a thousand people standing with their fingers pointed away from themselves at a thousand other people....and no one will pay. Understand this Karl.....NO ONE will pay. NO ONE will go to jail.

An ounce of gold will still be an ounce of gold no matter what happens. That is why I am here. You think this is still a game Karl....I think this is game over. I don't believe in fairy tales Karl.....I deal in hard cold facts. If you can't handle that then stay away from us.

Here's the cool part Karl. I don't have to prove you wrong.....I just have to wait.

.....and I am ever so patient.:cool:

MoMoney
10-16-2010, 08:14 AM
I let this thread go a couple of days.

One day after Karl gets a little poke on Kitco he comes out swinging at the goldbugs.....bad idea Karl.

In his own words.........you said it Karl I didn't.


Down in the comments section.....

Genesis (http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?user=genesis) <----Dat's Karl
I am getting very close to going "bug-out", converting all to tangible value items, and deciding that right or wrong, I'm gonna live it out where I don't care.

This is getting very close to going completely out of control - it is FAR worse than what was going on with Lehman.
http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=169025&page=1

-------------end quote.


I'm looking at a one year chart in gold Karl.....how did we do?

The next time you bring us up....you had better note that.:cool:

You don't understand something Karl. You want the crooks to be rounded up. You want this to get fixed.

That will never happen. This will go on until the wheels come off the wagon. That IS the plan. When that happens there will be a thousand people standing with their fingers pointed away from themselves at a thousand other people....and no one will pay. Understand this Karl.....NO ONE will pay. NO ONE will go to jail.

An ounce of gold will still be an ounce of gold no matter what happens. That is why I am here. You think this is still a game Karl....I think this is game over. I don't believe in fairy tales Karl.....I deal in hard cold facts. If you can't handle that then stay away from us.

Here's the cool part Karl. I don't have to prove you wrong.....I just have to wait.

.....and I am ever so patient.:cool:

GetZeeGold;
Excellent post, my dear! :D

Palmbchtom
10-16-2010, 08:54 AM
In my view..Karl is a HYPOCRITE.....end of story.!

christogl
10-16-2010, 11:43 AM
I respect Karl's insights and know that he believes in trading PMs, not holding physical. Who knows, he could be right in the end. But my question for him is how else can we insure ourselves against a hyperinflation outcome. If he acknowledges that deflation is imminent (which he does), then shouldn't you likewise acknowledge the opposite outcome is possible too? After all, history has proven that these two outcomes often run in tandem. I'm personally prepared for either outcome as much as is possible. I don't think he's right about the taxation argument, either.

Ykoun Cronleius
10-16-2010, 03:07 PM
Karl should listen to this Jim Rickards interview.

http://kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2010/10/16_Jim_Rickards.html

There's no doubt in my mind that we're going back on some kind of Gold standard as it is a way to devalue the USD at the same time. Which is what The Fed wants.

Partial Transcript:
Jim Rickards:

I think the paper dollar is on its way to collapse but that doesn’t mean the end of the United States or the United States power. What’s really, really interesting to me is that the United States is an awesome gold power. You know we never talk about it because nobody ever wants to talk about gold, I mean no one in an official capacity. But if you think of the world in terms of oil reserves, and people have done that a lot over the last thirty years. You know and the role of OPEC and so forth. You know you divide the world into those that produce oil, those who consume oil. An awful lot of concern has gone into the oil industry and the movement of oil around the world. Well, think of gold the same way. And very few people have ever done this. But when you start to think of the world in gold space instead of oil space, you very quickly realize that the United States is the Saudi Arabia of gold. We have over 8,000 tons. And that’s more than any other country. The euro system has 10,000 tons. These are metric tons, by the way. The euro system has 10,000 metric tons. But that’s a consortium of 16 members, 16 central banks, so it’s Spain and Italy and Germany and the Netherlands and a number of other countries. It’s not all on the books of the European Central Bank. In fact, relatively little is on the books of the ECB, most of it is in the national treasuries of those countries. But, collectively, if they wanted to act as a unit, under the one currency banner, the euro, they’ve got 10,000 tons, so they’re a gold power. Russia is desperately short of gold. China is short of gold. India, Brazil are kind of pathetic. Japan and the UK are kind of pathetic. None of these countries have anywhere near the gold that they need to support their money supply. So the US as we’re a military superpower, we’re also a gold superpower, we’re also one of the ten largest producing countries in the world, producing approximately 200 tons a year out of a total global output of a little over 2000 tons. So we’re producing almost 10% of the world’s output. So we’re a major producer, we’re a major hoarder of gold.

And, in addition to that, there is over 6000 tons of foreign official gold that is stored in the United States that we could always convert if we wanted to. If that gold is at the Federal Reserve Bank of New York, the United States could just secure it. We could send in a military convoy and move it to West Point or some secure US location and then just give the Europeans a receipt. So we could actually up our gold supply to over 14,000 tonnes very, very quickly. So we are a gold superpower.

In a way, the Fed could afford to trash the paper dollar, or at least experiment and risk trashing the paper dollar because if the paper dollar collapses, we could just go back to gold pretty easily. But the rest of the world can’t, especially if we take their gold.

Currency War: Germany about to lose 66% of its gold reserves

http://www.chaostheorien.de/artikel/-/asset_publisher/haR1/content/currency-war-germany-about-to-lose-66-percent-of-its-gold-reserves?redirect=%2Fstartseite

Samstag, 16. Oktober 2010 17:23
von Max Keiser und Lars Schall

Jim Rickards lays out a plan to commandeer Germany’s and all foreign depositors of sovereign gold at the New York Fed as currency wars heat up and the ‘nuclear option’ of hoarding and raising the price of Gold is contemplated by an embattled Fed as a way to force down the exchange value of the US dollar.

At “KingWorldNews.com“, Eric King published today an interview with James G. Rickards regarding present and future developments in the gold market. Mr. Rickards is a writer, lawyer and economist with over 30 years experience in global capital markets. He is Senior Managing Director at Omnis, Inc., a consulting firm in McLean, VA and is the leading practitioner at the intersection of global capital markets and national security.

The interview, in which Mr. Rickards states “that the U.S. is the Saudi Arabia of gold,” can be found here as a MP3:

http://www.kingworldnews.com/kingworldnews/Broadcast/Entries/2010/10/16_Jim_Rickards_files/Jim%20Rickards%2010%3A16%3A2010.mp3

“How can the U.S. be the Saudi Arabia of Gold?“

Max Keiser: „Jim says in this interview that the U.S. has an additional 6,000 tons of gold it can commandeer from the foreign deposits held at the New York Fed (including Germany’s) and move that gold to West Point and give foreigners a receipt.“

“But if the U.S. would just add the 6000 tonnes of foreign gold to their reserves what would be the outcome in terms of political relations towards those robbed nations? Isn't then the U.S. something like an outlaw-nation?“

Max Keiser: “The U.S. is already an outlaw-nation. Nobody with any serious net worth complies with any laws they feel are inconvenient for their life styles. When I was working on Wall St. - we were told that it was ok to break any laws we wanted to because 'the firm has lawyers, and if we need to, we can always get the gov't to write new laws.' Lloyd Blankfein really does think he's doing god's work - that he is above the law - that he is the giver of the law.“

Max Keiser also pointed out:

„Just to reiterate - what Jim is saying is what the Bundesbank told me directly when I interviewed inside the Bundesbank for my film for Al Jazeera. I was told that 'most of germany's gold is in NYC' this is a direct quote from the PR representative for Dr. Joachim Nagel, Head of the Markets Department at the Bundesbank.“[1]

Chris Powell from the Gold Anti-Trust Action Commitee, GATA, replied to Max Keiser's statement concerning his “German Gold Reserve Story“:

“The Bundesbank purported to deny Max's story but when pressed they actually confirmed it:

http://www.gata.org/node/7713

This is a very important detail and I often cite it in my work.“

Related to an essay by former U.S. Treasury Department and Federal Reserve official Edwin M. Truman (in which he is advocating that the United States should sell its gold reserves - see http://www.gata.org/node/9150.), Powell states with regard to Rickards interpretation:

“Rickards construes Truman's essay to mean that the U.S. political and financial establishment isn't thinking about using gold to restore some strength to the dollar and as a result the dollar will collapse and the world monetary system's return to gold will be chaotic rather than rational.

Maybe, but that is to take Truman's essay at face value rather than as manipulative disinformation, which most official and semi-official commentary about gold has been for many years.

In any case, Rickards also remarks that its gold reserve makes the United States a gold superpower, the more so since the United States has custody of the gold reserves of many other countries, which, he says, could be commandeered in pursuit of U.S. policy.

Rickards credits GATA for documenting how governments long have suppressed the price of gold but, like market analyst Stewart Thompson, among others, he believes that the U.S. government now wants gold to rise as the best mechanism for devaluing the dollar against the currencies of its trading partners.“

When asked about the German gold reserves, Dimitri Speck, who is the author of the German written book “Secret Gold Policy“, did send us this pie chart out of his book.

The rest: http://www.chaostheorien.de/artikel/-/asset_publisher/haR1/content/currency-war-germany-about-to-lose-66-percent-of-its-gold-reserves?redirect=%2Fstartseite

B1gBamboula
10-16-2010, 03:33 PM
greetings,

there is a ton of stuff showing up in the coin shops. people are bringing stuff in like crazy to sell.



This may depend on the local economy, in the northeast, all the shops I talk to say bullion is selling faster then they can restock. What region are you reporting from?