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View Full Version : Are you sure Silver does not respond to a magnet ??


Legio Patria Nostra
10-29-2010, 12:46 PM
Ok ...
I have a few coins ( generic ) that are doubtfull ... So I ordered an industrial magnet ( strong 1" x 2" )
Guess what : I placed the coin on a glass surface they move

I placed some ASE's ( straight from the mint ) on the glass ... they moved !
Took some Kookaburra's ...same thing
Took a few Maple's ..since they are .9999 .... they move ( no as much as the ASE or the Kook's )

Then I took a 2010 American Veterans Silver Dollar ( also straight from the mint ) .... that coin went almost crazy !!!

So ... Is this normal ... since a lot of members claim that Silver Coins should not respond to a magnet !

About AG
10-29-2010, 12:49 PM
It is OK. :)

Silver is diamagnetic. That means that it repels magnets slightly. So if you have an industrial magnet, the coin may move a bit. If you have a 100oz silver bar and hold the magnet very close to it, and move the magnet quickly, you will feel resistance.

The only problem would be if the silver 'jumps' to the magnet, and sticks to it. If it does that, it isn't really silver.

I was a bit shocked, too, the first time I discovered that.

laredo7mm
10-29-2010, 12:52 PM
Also do some research on Eddy Currents

jayjay
10-29-2010, 12:53 PM
Silver is not a ferrous metal. It will not be affected by a magnet.

I took apart a microwave and removed the magnets from it. They are 6 ounces each and very strong. Together they do not affect my silver. :confused:

About AG
10-29-2010, 12:56 PM
I took apart a microwave and removed the magnets from it. They are 6 ounces each and very strong. Together they do not affect my silver. :confused:

The magnet may not be strong enough. We have some more details at http://About.Ag/counterfeit.htm . If you do not feel anything with the magnet, it does not mean that the item is not silver. If the item sticks to the magnet (as in a bit hard to pull off), then it is not silver.

laredo7mm
10-29-2010, 12:56 PM
Silver is not a ferrous metal. It will not be affected by a magnet...

Any electrically conductive material will be affected by passing a magnetic field through it.

spankthatbass
10-29-2010, 01:00 PM
Iron, Cobalt, and Nickel are the only true ferro-magnetic elements on earth, some elements are magnetic at lower temperatures.(best I can rem. from class)

As another poster mentioned.... the only thing i could think of would be eddy currents. With that being said... you should only feel resistance when you move the magnet for the eddy current to come into play.

Legio Patria Nostra
10-29-2010, 01:17 PM
It is OK. :)

Silver is diamagnetic. That means that it repels magnets slightly. So if you have an industrial magnet, the coin may move a bit. If you have a 100oz silver bar and hold the magnet very close to it, and move the magnet quickly, you will feel resistance.

The only problem would be if the silver 'jumps' to the magnet, and sticks to it. If it does that, it isn't really silver.

I was a bit shocked, too, the first time I discovered that.

Thank God ( and you ... ) for that .... if not ... I would be stuck with a lot of junk ! ... altough I had my doubts ...since even the Maple's & ASE moved

HighInBC
10-29-2010, 01:26 PM
This is something I did not know. I guess my magnets are not strong enough.

Gold24K
10-29-2010, 01:31 PM
well i did not know this either, and have been playing with silver and magnets since childhood.

will tinker with tonight, have some fairly strong magnets to try

Johnny Cyty
10-29-2010, 01:36 PM
So why do some baseball players wear those magnetic necklaces anyway? :confused:

Solidus_Aurelius
10-29-2010, 01:44 PM
So why do some baseball players wear those magnetic necklaces anyway? :confused:

Because they were a gift from their girlfriends and they want to continue to get laid. :D

Johnny Cyty
10-29-2010, 01:49 PM
Because they were a gift from their girlfriends and they want to continue to get laid. :D

So you think it helps them hit it straight? ;)

refrep
10-29-2010, 10:43 PM
Ok ...
I have a few coins ( generic ) that are doubtfull ... So I ordered an industrial magnet ( strong 1" x 2" )
Guess what : I placed the coin on a glass surface they move

I placed some ASE's ( straight from the mint ) on the glass ... they moved !
Took some Kookaburra's ...same thing
Took a few Maple's ..since they are .9999 .... they move ( no as much as the ASE or the Kook's )

Then I took a 2010 American Veterans Silver Dollar ( also straight from the mint ) .... that coin went almost crazy !!!

So ... Is this normal ... since a lot of members claim that Silver Coins should not respond to a magnet !

If the magnet sticks (picks up the silver) then something is very wrong.

PSUDave
10-29-2010, 11:14 PM
Any electrically conductive material will be affected by passing a magnetic field through it.

True that. And silver is as electrically conductive as it gets.

AnotherDave
10-29-2010, 11:24 PM
How strong is your magnet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Frog_diamagnetic_levitation.jpg

ProfessorHortengle
10-29-2010, 11:32 PM
Easy to demonstrate with a silver dime and a big neodymium magnet. Look up Lenz effect on youtube for some examples. Different metals respond differently. Check out this video using Lenz effect:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PNESikIjyZs

jjmtg
10-30-2010, 04:02 AM
I bought two rare earth magnets from e*ay. These little guys are so strong I can barely break them apart. Tested all my silver and so far no reaction. Whew.

About AG
10-30-2010, 07:01 AM
I bought two rare earth magnets from e*ay. These little guys are so strong I can barely break them apart. Tested all my silver and so far no reaction. Whew.

Remember, there are two pieces to this puzzle -- [1] if a magnet sticks to the silver coin, it isn't really silver, but [2] if a magnet does not stick, it may or may not be silver!

I took a strong magnet to a box of counterfeits bullion coins, and the only one it stuck to was a special 'demonstration plate' that showed both sides of a fake bullion coin that was made in China. The plate was attracted to the magnet, the actual fake coin was not.

A lot of fake bullion coins from China are made of copper, which is not attracted to magnets.

imallright
10-30-2010, 07:38 AM
I was attracted to a magnet once
but it wouldn't have nothing to do with me and as you can see I'm still not over it

reptiles
01-11-2011, 04:12 AM
After reading some fascinating stuff here, and on About Ag site, I started to experiment with some rare Earth magnets and some silver.

I wasn't sure what was meant by "feeling resistance" when using a magnet on a silver coin, but after a few minutes of messing around, it was very obvious.

My best demonstration was taking a flat, 1" diameter strong round, magnet and waving it back and forth, directly over an American Silver Eagle. The magnet, in my hand felt as if I was waving it in a thick syrup. I was surprised. I was unfamiliar with silver's diamagnetic property.

The magnet, in my experience, didn't feel as if it was being attracted (not silver) or pushed away (maybe silver) when slowly manipulating the ASE and magnet. But when continuously waving it (a few mm each way), the effect was quite pronounced!

I have no doubt, this could be a useful adjunct in evaluating suspect coins with practice and the right magnet.

zerocd
01-11-2011, 06:48 AM
I get nickel sized rare earth magnets in my business and they can be purchased in stacks of 10.

To really demonstrate what many of you have correctly called resistance when moving a magnet near a very conductive metal, try this....

Take a stack of Neodymium magnets and drop them down a piece of copper pipe or aluminum tubing or even the square tubing made from aluminum. Silver would be best but if they made pipe out of silver, the thieves would have us all washing in the creek.

The amount of "resistance" will slow the fall through the pipe to that of a feather.

At no time will the magnets be attracted to the pipe/tubing.

A small amount of electrical current can be measured passing through the pipe as the magnets fall.

Try it!

0CD

Roadrunner777
01-11-2011, 07:19 AM
If you have an old hard drive, there are some good magnets inside... freebie!

laredo7mm
01-11-2011, 10:40 AM
...The magnet, in my experience, didn't feel as if it was being attracted (not silver) or pushed away (maybe silver) when slowly manipulating the ASE and magnet. But when continuously waving it (a few mm each way), the effect was quite pronounced!

I have no doubt, this could be a useful adjunct in evaluating suspect coins with practice and the right magnet.

Any electrically conductive, non magnetic, metal will display this effect to varying degrees. Think you can tell the difference between a silver coin and a copper coin with the magnet test? It is about as quantitative as the ring/ping test.

PntySqrl
01-11-2011, 11:31 AM
well i did not know this either, and have been playing with silver and magnets since childhood.


Do you look back now and think about how much time you've wasted?

sandman993
01-11-2011, 11:44 AM
Thank God ( and you ... ) for that .... if not ... I would be stuck with a lot of junk ! ... altough I had my doubts ...since even the Maple's & ASE moved

They're all fake...better let us have em for closer examination to be sure...we need all fakes out of circulation...after you hand em over, we'll send you some new magnets, so you can find more of those.

sandman993
01-11-2011, 11:45 AM
So why do some baseball players wear those magnetic necklaces anyway? :confused:

So their TT's don't shrink from all the roids.

Medina
01-11-2011, 11:48 AM
Cool, didnt know this info!

sandman993
01-11-2011, 11:51 AM
I was attracted to a magnet once
but it wouldn't have nothing to do with me and as you can see I'm still not over it

That's sick...I like it...I can tell you're one of us

DanChan
01-11-2011, 11:52 AM
This is something I did not know. I guess my magnets are not strong enough.

Maybe you need faster motion.

redmonster
01-11-2011, 02:05 PM
Also do some research on Eddy Currents

Right. That's the usual cause for silver, gold, or copper coins to move when a strong magnet is brought near. In metals, eddy current forces are orders of magnitude stronger than those from diamagnetism but only occur when the magnet is moving with respect to the coin. Forces due to diamagnetism, while very small, are there even when the magnet and coin are, and have been for a while, stationary.

Both eddy currents and the diamagnetic property of silver cause coins to push away when a strong magnet is brought near. However, once the magnet's motion is halted, the eddy currents decay leaving only the repelling force of the diamagnetism.

Bullion_Bob
01-12-2011, 02:30 AM
If you have an old hard drive, there are some good magnets inside... freebie!

+1

Having access to dozens of deceased hard drives over the years, I have stacks of them.

Seagate drives are the strongest, and some of those old Seagate drives are really the best of the best.

elephantine
01-12-2011, 11:10 AM
I took a strong magnet to a box of counterfeits bullion coins, and the only one it stuck to was a special 'demonstration plate' that showed both sides of a fake bullion coin that was made in China. The plate was attracted to the magnet, the actual fake coin was not.

A lot of fake bullion coins from China are made of copper, which is not attracted to magnets.

How many of the coins in that box weigh one troy ounce and have the proper volume?

Waylons Ghost
01-12-2011, 06:23 PM
This explains things and demonstrates silver magnetic pull

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NgSXg-WOEVY

reptiles
01-12-2011, 09:11 PM
Any electrically conductive, non magnetic, metal will display this effect to varying degrees. Think you can tell the difference between a silver coin and a copper coin with the magnet test? It is about as quantitative as the ring/ping test.

Perhaps so... I haven't compared silver to all possible elements/alloys out there, but I do have a fake Chinese-made "silver trade dollar" that is silver-plated something (lead?) and I get no feedback at all from the same magnet.

HeathKit
01-13-2011, 09:46 AM
Right. That's the usual cause for silver, gold, or copper coins to move when a strong magnet is brought near. In metals, eddy current forces are orders of magnitude stronger than those from diamagnetism but only occur when the magnet is moving with respect to the coin. Forces due to diamagnetism, while very small, are there even when the magnet and coin are, and have been for a while, stationary.

Both eddy currents and the diamagnetic property of silver cause coins to push away when a strong magnet is brought near. However, once the magnet's motion is halted, the eddy currents decay leaving only the repelling force of the diamagnetism.

Couldn't have put it much better my-self. I have a couple 100 oz bars here, and a rather huge rare earth. The effects can be quite interesting, as the silver almost behaves it is in a low gravity environment.

OrangeCrush
01-13-2011, 01:04 PM
Its important to note that there are varying degree's of strength, referred to as grade, even when discussing specific magnets like rare earth. The most common grade for "quality" licensed rare earth magnets is N35. The higher the number the higher the grade and in regards to rare earth magnets, they go all the way up to grade N52 and they are stunningly powerful. A 2 in x 2 in x 1 in N52 magnet has over 260 pounds of pull force. The reason I say licensed is because rare earth magnets are in fact an invention and thus anyone looking to make them are required to pay a licensing fee to the patent holders. The illegal, non licensed, rare earth magnets that are sold for considerably less in some places are usually lower in quality. Obviously the stronger the magnet, the more likely you will feel a repulsive force when dealing with silver.

My son loves magnets and we recently purchased Amazing Magnets Uberball. Its basically over 650 rare earth magnets, 1" posts and balls rated at N40, that allow you to make a buckyball with the internal superstructure. Its absolutely massive and was super fun to make. Anyways this thing, when finished, puts out a serious magnetic force and you can very easily feel the repulsion that silver has with such a magnet. I have honestly never tested silver with smaller magnets so I have no idea the minimum magnet strength required to see this force in action but as others have already stated in this thread, it is absolutely and without question 100% normal for silver to have a repulsive force when dealing with strong magnets.

By the way, if anyone in here is really into magnets then you should really check out the Uberball. Its expensive, over 300 bucks, but its so worth it as you can build really cool structures out of them. Absolutely great for kids.