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lonewolf
03-15-2011, 07:05 AM
Why are PM's going down in light of disasters in Japan?

GetZeeGold
03-15-2011, 07:06 AM
Why are PM's going down in light of disasters in Japan?

Gold is over $1400 and silver is over $34.

Pop a zanax and call me in the morning. :D


Welcome to the markets chief. :cool:

lonewolf
03-15-2011, 07:19 AM
I'm not worried, just would have thought a earthquake, tsumani, and impending nuke disaster would have sent prices up...I would expect stock markets to crash not metals. help me out here....

Tranquility Base
03-15-2011, 07:25 AM
look at what happened in 2008 and you might get a feeling for what is going down now. There is no safe haven to put your cash just hang on and pray that the Japanese get a handle on those nukes.

GetZeeGold
03-15-2011, 07:28 AM
I'm not worried, just would have thought a earthquake, tsumani, and impending nuke disaster would have sent prices up...I would expect stock markets to crash not metals. help me out here....

Well....on one side you have politics....and then you have manipulation.......and never forget the value of head games.


.......any clearer?:cool:


Relax.....if this stuff was easy.....everyone would be doing it.:D

coindog
03-15-2011, 07:30 AM
nobody can figure out all the angles of how this will play out. in a confusing situation everybody pulls a Cramer, SELL SELL SELL, on everything. no logic involved, the herd starts to stampede. All those traders aren't near as rational and cool headed as they pretend to be.

Feral child
03-15-2011, 07:31 AM
Ummm.... because everything you thought you knew is wrong? Seriously though, don't look for a minute to minute, day to day correlation between PMs and events, it rarely works that way. :)

Carpenter
03-15-2011, 07:33 AM
Funny how PM's are always sold to cover paper losses.

GetZeeGold
03-15-2011, 07:33 AM
look at what happened in 2008.......

Well early in the year it tanked.....then the fin disaster hit......you may have read about it.


.........and GetZee plowed into gold at $700 holding my nose all the way.....saying.....this is crazy.......this is crazy.:eek:


And gold has never looked back.


Does that about sum it up?:D

lonewolf
03-15-2011, 07:33 AM
I do not think they will get a good handle on those nukes...I also think this will negatively effect world economy. I just would figure that with the dollar and the yen in trouble the pms would rise.
You talk about the fundamental reasons to own pms...I would think this event would increase them in spades!

bandicou2010
03-15-2011, 07:35 AM
Why are PM's going down in light of disasters in Japan?

Wow, every1 feeling OK this morning. No1 has yet raised the issue of JPM manipulation in response to lonewolf's question. :)

I'm shocked :D

rotschadel
03-15-2011, 07:37 AM
Remember the largest players that drive prices most quickly (not necessarily lasting changes tho) use a lot of leverage. so in times like this they reduce risk across the board. That includes PM's.

Also Japan is looking at 100's of billions in costs for rebuilding. so Japanese institutions are selling everything to raise Yen to prepare for this.

this event does nothing to change the motivations for most of us that are buying PM's, unsound monetary policy etc. In fact this only increases the likelihood longet term that these policies will continue.

Keep your investment in line with what enables you to sleep at night and hold on for the ride.

We are after all, only down a bit over a $1 from our peak.

Feral child
03-15-2011, 07:37 AM
Wow, every1 feeling OK this morning. No1 has yet raised the issue of JPM manipulation in response to lonewolf's question. :)

I'm shocked :D

Not my department- that guy will be along about 8AM ;)

GetZeeGold
03-15-2011, 07:40 AM
Wow, every1 feeling OK this morning. No1 has yet raised the issue of JPM manipulation in response to lonewolf's question. :)


Go for it dude........let er rip!:D

golditiki
03-15-2011, 07:46 AM
Why are PM's going down in light of disasters in Japan?

Money is needed to repair the disasterholes.

All assets will suffer, the ones more than the others.

So one should expect people also to sell papersilver and papergold under the circumstances, could be big dips.

Gold and silver are not for kiddies.

Wood, plywood, steel, cement materials which slumped due to the mortgage / housing crisis will probably pick up, but maybe not overheat though.
They first need to clear the rubble, but it might not be a bad idea to buy such stocks when everything without discernment is plunging . My 2 cents,
no advice.

Golditiki +++

Golditiki +++

GetZeeGold
03-15-2011, 07:49 AM
All assets will suffer, the ones more than the others.


:eek:
http://www.kitco.com/images/down.gif NIKKEI
8,605.15
-1015.34


Time to go commando. :cool:

Gonna get one shot at this.....do NOT blink!

bandicou2010
03-15-2011, 08:02 AM
Go for it dude........let er rip!:D

OK. It's manipulation clear and simple... JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!! JPM!!

Carpenter
03-15-2011, 08:06 AM
OK. It's manipulation clear and simple... JPM!!


Sort of. :eek:

https://www.kitcomm.com/showpost.php?p=1267407&postcount=1

:D

GetZeeGold
03-15-2011, 08:09 AM
Sort of. :eek:

https://www.kitcomm.com/showpost.php?p=1267407&postcount=1

:D

Never let a crisis go to waste.......and don't be anywhere near the cable when it snaps. :D

SiberD
03-15-2011, 08:09 AM
I do not think they will get a good handle on those nukes...I also think this will negatively effect world economy. I just would figure that with the dollar and the yen in trouble the pms would rise.
You talk about the fundamental reasons to own pms...I would think this event would increase them in spades!

Ah, nay, nay, nay......everybody is going to safety....the US Dollar!

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Just look at the 10yr bond yields plunge last night! Somebody was buying big time!!

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/von%20havenstein/10%20Yearjpg.jpg

Probably Bill Gross getting back in because he didn't foresee a tsunami and nuclear event that has crippled the third largest economy in the world.

But, don't worry, they'll soon see the error of their ways:D

SilverFinger
03-15-2011, 08:13 AM
The market is rigged...I'm no fool, metals are the place to be.

Prospector
03-15-2011, 08:21 AM
Who told you it's down? I checked and it is in fact down $2 from a few days ago, $34 versus $36. That is 5.5%. Big deal. Silver fluctuates that much all the time, no reason is needed.

Next, who told you it was because of something in Japan or Egypt or China or whatever the heck they said. Does it ever occur to you that a lot of those people have to talk but have no incentive to say anything useful? It is a tradition for news readers to try to find some reason for market behavior. However they are entirely unqualified to do so. But they are very well qualified in sounding like they know something, even when they don't.

Now get sensible: did you sell PMs because of what happened in Japan or Egypt or Sudan or whatever country is in the news? No? Do you know any reason why somebody else would do so? In Japan they have shut down several auto factories. Now that is something that might have a real effect on, say, palladium. I mean if they don't increase production at factories in other countries. So there may or may not be an action in palladium that is related to the catastrophe in Japan, but it's not certain until you see the market quotes. I think you will dig a long time before you find a connection to PM markets that is even that reliable.

minermite
03-15-2011, 08:27 AM
The market is rigged...I'm no fool, metals are the place to be.


Lest we forget in these dangerous times. It's rigged no matter what goes on. Good to see equities are not seen as quite as risky as commodities today.

coindog
03-15-2011, 08:30 AM
Ah, nay, nay, nay......everybody is going to safety....the US Dollar!

HAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

Just look at the 10yr bond yields plunge last night! Somebody was buying big time!!

http://www.zerohedge.com/sites/default/files/images/user5/imageroot/von%20havenstein/10%20Yearjpg.jpg

Probably Bill Gross getting back in because he didn't foresee a tsunami and nuclear event that has crippled the third largest economy in the world.

But, don't worry, they'll soon see the error of their ways:D
I laughed till it hurt when I saw your post but it's true, the market players look at PMs the same way they do Acme Widgets, just another trade to try and make more FRNs. when things looK bad they flee to safety, the Dollar. HA HA HA HA

GetZeeGold
03-15-2011, 08:31 AM
Good to see equities are not seen as quite as risky as commodities today.

You must not be seeing the same thing I'm seeing.

Tsunami headed for NYSE. :cool:

ETA.....one hour.

RoadLizard
03-15-2011, 08:32 AM
Who told you it's down? I checked and it is in fact down $2 from a few days ago, $34 versus $36. That is 5.5%. Big deal. Silver fluctuates that much all the time, no reason is needed.

Next, who told you it was because of something in Japan or Egypt or China or whatever the heck they said. Does it ever occur to you that a lot of those people have to talk but have no incentive to say anything useful? It is a tradition for news readers to try to find some reason for market behavior. However they are entirely unqualified to do so. But they are very well qualified in sounding like they know something, even when they don't.

Now get sensible: did you sell PMs because of what happened in Japan or Egypt or Sudan or whatever country is in the news? No? Do you know any reason why somebody else would do so? In Japan they have shut down several auto factories. Now that is something that might have a real effect on, say, palladium. I mean if they don't increase production at factories in other countries. So there may or may not be an action in palladium that is related to the catastrophe in Japan, but it's not certain until you see the market quotes. I think you will dig a long time before you find a connection to PM markets that is even that reliable.

Agreed. Especially on the fact that as the price of silver goes up, the % swings will be even greater in dollar value. Like Gold for example - just a few percent ends up being like a $25/$30 dollar an oz shift! Still, I prefer slow and steady to this craziness but ya gotta admit...it does make it fun. Woooo Weeee..... :D

wgadget
03-15-2011, 08:33 AM
From what I've heard, the Japanese will need to sell their US Treasurys, which will cause The Bernank to raise US interest rates, which...

Metal_Head
03-15-2011, 08:46 AM
I'm not worried, just would have thought a earthquake, tsumani, and impending nuke disaster would have sent prices up...I would expect stock markets to crash not metals. help me out here....

It's caused $30+ billion of damage according to insurers. That money needs to be found from somewhere, so people liquidate & that has a knock-on effect around the world. It won't matter which market you're in. Aside from that, the daily MACD is looking very ugly right now, in the process of crossing down. Physical is physical, but I wouldn't want to hold an ETF right now. I'd suggest that the minimum target downwards is $31.

GetZeeGold
03-15-2011, 08:51 AM
.....which will cause The Bernank to raise US interest rates, which...

What about the part if the The Bernank raises rates.....we die?

Catch 22 is in play.

May you liive in interesting times.:cool:

wgadget
03-15-2011, 09:27 AM
What about the part if the The Bernank raises rates.....we die?

Catch 22 is in play.

May you liive in interesting times.:cool:


Well...which leads to a drop in PM prices. At least, that's what I've read and heard.


I also heard that the cleanup in Japan is up to $120 BILLION.

galtbob
03-15-2011, 09:28 AM
I wish I had never gone to bed. I sold into the first drop right near the bottom, got out even as it bounced. By 3am it looked like things had stabilized for the night so I went to bed. Down 2% more by morning. GRRRRR. My luck in trading is SO BAD !!

GetZeeGold
03-15-2011, 09:30 AM
Well...which leads to a drop in PM prices. At least, that's what I've read and heard.

It's equilibrium....waves in a pond.

Definitely an arbitrage moment. :cool:

GetZeeGold
03-15-2011, 09:37 AM
You must not be seeing the same thing I'm seeing.

Tsunami headed for NYSE. :cool:

ETA.....one hour.

Right on cue.....we see the smaller waves wash up. :cool:

-283 dow

Ag gnostic
03-15-2011, 09:49 AM
Why are PM's going down in light of disasters in Japan?

I think silver might follow the DJIA in some cases.

GetZeeGold
03-15-2011, 09:58 AM
I think silver might follow the DJIA in some cases.


Yes.....but just remember that the water always recedes from the flood.

You can't fool mother nature for long. :cool:

wgadget
03-15-2011, 10:02 AM
There has already been a little bounce back up for the metals. :)

Plata Play
03-15-2011, 10:44 AM
There are no straight lines up or down and this is a common blip. When the recovery and rebuilding of Japan begins there will be a solid demand for Silver, and this too shall be a common blip. The factors pushing this bull are far more varied and stronger than a natural disaster even with nuclear in play.


IMO:)

II DALTON II
03-15-2011, 10:49 AM
I'm not worried, just would have thought a earthquake, tsumani, and impending nuke disaster would have sent prices up...I would expect stock markets to crash not metals. help me out here....

Governments and investors have to liquidate assets in order to bring in the cash to pay for repairs, services, new items etc during disasters like what we have seen. I'm sure they're not happy about having to do that but you gotta do what you gotta do.

Expect a $ Dollar rally I say. All aid and transactions will only be in $ I expect.

lonewolf
03-15-2011, 03:30 PM
This one I don't understand...not that I catch them all but always in retrospect I can figure out something that makes sense. Today I have no idea what the he'll is going on.
We have a major natural and economic disaster...the middle east is still unstable, the FED meets and says times are good and we are going to print the rest of QE2, the dollar is at rock bottom lows, the worlds third largest economy has a deficit twice GNP and they have to print and borrow, and what?

Gold gets hammered and all the talk and press is that Silver is about to nosedive...

My plan is to hold all my physical and buy all the way down I guess...I don't know about the rest of the world but I don't want dollars, bonds, or equities...

They say commodities and metals are about to get hammered down....while I do not understand it I say bring it on...I'll buy gold and silver with Plastic see how they like that.

SiberD
03-15-2011, 03:40 PM
This one I don't understand...not that I catch them all but always in retrospect I can figure out something that makes sense. Today I have no idea what the he'll is going on.


Get used to it as the wheels drop off they'll be wild swings up and down. And the drops really weren't that bad today. Silver was less than today's price just a couple of weeks ago.

I'm still a buyer....I have about $1,500 in bids goin' on the bay right now.

Ya gotta be...http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DPk4EX2GDc0

chaoticmayhem
03-15-2011, 03:55 PM
Maybe things aren't as bad as we perceive or are led to believe.

chuckno
03-15-2011, 04:18 PM
I saw one comment that made sense. The Japense are selling their PM to raise money for rebuilding. Now if you know someone is going to sell do you offer more or offer less?
Thats why PM started down. Remember you have PM in case of disaster, well they had a disaster. Now is their time to spend their PMs.

lonewolf
03-15-2011, 04:29 PM
chuck no that is about the only thing makes sense....japanese selling because they need cash....I keep thinking the world does not view gold and silver as safe haven...

Son of Isis
03-15-2011, 04:38 PM
A lot of money has moved into US Treasuries strengthening the dollar. The Japanese are selling treasuries and yen. Dumping Yen also strengthens the dollar through the USDx. You have Gross and Pimco putting money back into US Treasuries boosting the dollar. Even though fundamentals prevail in a long term market, short term is simply movement of money. Short term panic sellers are driving everything down but smart money is already coming in behind buying and I believe we consolidate all losses, up by the end of the week.

SilverGal
03-15-2011, 04:40 PM
..I keep thinking the world does not view gold and silver as safe haven...

The followers those that trust in this system in other words the "sheeple" as some call them do not view PM's as safe haven but those in power do.

Caesar
03-15-2011, 04:42 PM
Hello all,
I love the Japanese people and their culture. I wish them the best :)

They will require millions of miles of "copper" wire to rebuild their infrastructure.
Gold & Silver will be sold to pay for it all.

just my pre-1982 $0.02

alvinsclee
03-15-2011, 04:43 PM
... japanese selling because they need cash... I keep thinking the world does not view gold and silver as safe haven...
Simple reason... http://www.aesop-fable.com/chicken/the-chicken-and-the-jewel ... but yes, the Japanese need cash as it is most liquid, to resolve immediate concerns. I first mentioned it in https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=77946&page=3

jackrabbit
03-15-2011, 04:43 PM
chuck no that is about the only thing makes sense....japanese selling because they need cash....I keep thinking the world does not view gold and silver as safe haven...

It is a safe haven that's why they are selling it to re-build! Isn't that the point of having PM's for a rainy day? So naturally it will go down because the cost of re-building takes money away from going into PMs. By the way this shows that PM's are NOT money, they are an asset.

Feral child
03-15-2011, 04:55 PM
They say commodities and metals are about to get hammered down....while I do not understand it I say bring it on...I'll buy gold and silver with Plastic see how they like that.

I'm so dang proud of you- today my young man has become a BUG :)

marti
03-15-2011, 06:30 PM
It is a safe haven that's why they are selling it to re-build! Isn't that the point of having PM's for a rainy day? So naturally it will go down because the cost of re-building takes money away from going into PMs. By the way this shows that PM's are NOT money, they are an asset.

Silver is down because the world (with other commodities) is selling it , not because the Japanese are selling it. The world does not need to re-build

stupidme
03-15-2011, 06:34 PM
look at what happened in 2008 and you might get a feeling for what is going down now. There is no safe haven to put your cash just hang on and pray that the Japanese get a handle on those nukes.
We nuked them, payback is a bitch.....

stupidme
03-15-2011, 06:35 PM
We nuked them, payback is a bitch.....

Soon.....we may nuke ourselves...:confused:

Chrisadamley
03-15-2011, 06:40 PM
chuck no that is about the only thing makes sense....japanese selling because they need cash....I keep thinking the world does not view gold and silver as safe haven...

Thats not the only thing that makes sense. What makes sense is the Japanese economy is in shambles. Anyone holding Japanese currency sold and bought the dollar.

Simple as that if you ask me. Dollar gains mucho strenght because of torn japanese econ...

And, if recent history means anything...dollar up silver down.

alvinsclee
03-15-2011, 09:46 PM
Silver is down because the world (with other commodities) is selling it , not because the Japanese are selling it. The world does not need to re-build
While the Japanese need cash for reconstruction and the world may not need to rebuild, the rest of the world need to recoup investment losses incurred elsewhere.

The take-home message is that precious metals aren't just for speculating in crisis... it is also a reserve to redeem for cash in emergencies. PM investors would sleep better bearing this in mind as we build our stack :)