PDA

View Full Version : Swiss gold Franc referendum


Flix1
05-24-2011, 07:14 AM
I've heard from a friend that the largest Swiss party is pushing for a referendum on the gold franc "goldenfranken" early nex year.. anybody know some details on this?

AlbyVA
05-24-2011, 07:23 AM
I've heard from a friend that the largest Swiss party is pushing for a referendum on the gold franc "goldenfranken" early nex year.. anybody know some details on this?



Ain't gonna happen because a Gold currency will hurt the Swiss Economy.
There is a reason why the Swiss dropped Gold from their currency back in
2000. The Swiss Franc was based on a 40% legal gold-reserve requirement
from 1936, when it ended gold convertibility, until 2000.

GetZeeGold
05-24-2011, 07:25 AM
Ain't gonna happen because a Gold currency will hurt the Swiss Economy.

How so? :D

AlbyVA
05-24-2011, 08:52 AM
How so? :D



Because Gold is monetary and fiscal constraint on a country. We all see
Gold and think wealth preservation and dependable value. But Governments
who live in a world of debt-money see gold as a hindrance on an economy.

The best way to explain it is to think of buying a house. How many people
save up the $200,000 or so to purchase their home? Just about nobody.
They all go to the bank to request a loan to get the home now and will
repay it over 30yrs + interest. A win for the bank, because it will likely earn
2x the money it loans out over 30yrs. A win for the consumer, because they
get a home now instead of 15-20/yrs from now after saving for it. And a
win for the economy, because houses now = jobs now for all the builders and
suppliers of homes and materials.

Whereas if you had to save up to buy a home, the banks are useless, you
have to wait until you are likey 40+ years old to move into your own home,
and all those jobs fueling the economy will evaporate because they can't
wait years until you save up the money. What this does is slow down the
economy to a crawl.

Using Gold as money does the same thing, but on a national level. A country
can't spend money on those F-22 Raptors or fight a war in Iraq until it saves
up the money. As a result, a nation not bound by gold can print the money
it needs now to complete those purchases and increase the economy at the
same time. While spreading out the resulting inflation over generations of
the population. And as long as a nation can keep that inflation rate below
a few percentage points, its impact is meaningless. Do you really care if
the price of bread jumps from $1/loaf to $2/loaf over the course of
20-25/yrs? Taking note that you'll likely obtain a raise in your wages that
either match or exceed the rate of inflation? Its like filling a pool with
water while at the same time have a hole in the pool to keep you from
drowning. But if the inflows (money printing) exceed the outflows (wage
and wealth increases) then you have issues.

Inflation isn't bad, as long as the broad economy can keep ahead of
inflation. Thus is the world of Fiat money and a system of debt. Gold
demands money to be present, which demands savings to expand
economies which take "time". Its great if you are holding gold, but it
sucks as blood to fuel an economy.


There is a great article today, indirectly related to this topic in the
Financial Times about what would happen to America if the US Dollar
was no longer the reserve currency, but it was the Euro. And how that
would impact the US economy. We would be restricted by not being able
to expand our money supply without having Euros in the bank. Much like
Gold if it was a reserve currency.

GetZeeGold
05-24-2011, 08:55 AM
There is a great article today,

Are you going to post it......or am I suppose to magically find it. :D

Flix1
05-24-2011, 12:33 PM
Ain't gonna happen

What exactly? nobody seems to know the actual details, so opinion is a bit redundant...

Has anyone actually heard about this and knows what the actual goldfranken proposal is? Is it a gold standard or an alternative currency?

Flix1
05-24-2011, 12:36 PM
There is a reason why the Swiss dropped Gold from their currency back in 2000. The Swiss Franc was based on a 40% legal gold-reserve requirement
from 1936, when it ended gold convertibility, until 2000.

Yeah, the reason was that it was the condition imposed to join the IMF. Read Ferdinand Lips "Gold Wars"

Ag gnostic
05-24-2011, 12:43 PM
We would be restricted by not being able
to expand our money supply without having Euros in the bank.

Sorry to be dense, assuming the reserve currency to be Euros, why would a national reserve of Euros be needed to increase the supply of dollars?

galtbob
05-24-2011, 01:34 PM
Yeah, the reason was that it was the condition imposed to join the IMF. Read Ferdinand Lips "Gold Wars"

Is this mostly about the swiss, or is it still worth reading? I see it is ten years old and costs $20.

Flix1
05-30-2011, 01:09 PM
well.. seeing as nobody came forth with info on this.. I did my own digging. Apparently the "Projekt Goldfranken" is more advanced than I thought, with parliamentary action and a possible referendum next year:

Schweizer Politiker wollen neuen Goldfranken als Fluchtwährung
http://www.goldreporter.de/schweizer-politiker-wollen-neuen-goldfranken-als-fluchtwahrung/gold/6884/

This looks like more or less the official site:
http://www.gesunde-waehrung.ch/goldstueck/index.html

Gesunde Währung = sound/healthy currency

Goldfranken und Goldmark als Alternativen
http://www.zeit-fragen.ch/index.php?id=212

Schaffung eines Goldfrankens
http://www.schluer.ch/parlamentarische-vorstoesse/parlamentarische-initiativen/archiv-2011/schaffung-eines-goldfrankens.html

The guys behind it seem to be Ulrich Schlüer, Luzi Stamm and Lukas Reimann

HighInBC
05-30-2011, 07:07 PM
Saying a low rate of inflation is harmless is like saying stealing just small amount every so often from everyones savings is harmless.

Yes I care if I save $1 and it is worth 50 cents 20 years later. I should be able to take wealth from my youth to my old age without half of it being stolen.

Number 47
05-30-2011, 07:26 PM
Saying a low rate of inflation is harmless is like saying stealing just small amount every so often from everyones savings is harmless.

Yes I care if I save $1 and it is worth 50 cents 20 years later. I should be able to take wealth from my youth to my old age without half of it being stolen.

Well said sir.

HardlyPeeved
05-30-2011, 07:26 PM
Because Gold is monetary and fiscal constraint on a country. We all see Gold and think wealth preservation and dependable value. But Governments who live in a world of debt-money see gold as a hindrance on an economy.
...
Inflation isn't bad, as long as the broad economy can keep ahead of
inflation. Thus is the world of Fiat money and a system of debt. Gold
demands money to be present, which demands savings to expand
economies which take "time". Its great if you are holding gold, but it
sucks as blood to fuel an economy.

Of course...that is how we got here.

So now that inflation is about to be really bad. And the fiat money system collapses. And the banks and governments require something (like Gold or Silver) to be present...and which demands physical savings to expand a government and economy....

What about after all the fiat economies collapse...what then ? (what...now?)

Fiat has never survived the "test of time"...all economies "try out" fiat...and it always failed in the past. Fiat can only be used temporarily (like a drug)...until the willpower is overcome to spend, spend, spend in a carefree and libertine manner.

When the fiat fails...and there is no more reliability in any fiat currency...then won't we return to Gold, Silver, Platnum ?

The silver specie standard was widespread from the fall of the Byzantine Empire until the 19th century.

In 1704, following Queen Anne's proclamation, the British West Indies became one of the first regions to adopt a gold standard in conjunction with the Spanish gold doubloon coin. In 1717, the master of the Royal Mint, Sir Isaac Newton, introduced a new mint ratio as between silver and gold, and this had the effect of putting Britain onto a de facto gold standard. Following the Napoleonic wars, the United Kingdom introduced the gold sovereign coin and formally adopted a gold standard in 1821. At the same time, revolutions in Latin America interrupted the supply of silver dollars (pieces of eight) that were being produced at the mints in Potosi, Mexico, and Lima. The British gold standard initially extended to some of the British colonies, notably the Australasian colonies and the Southern African colonies, but it did not extend to the North American colonies, to British India, or to South-East Asia. Canada adopted a gold standard in 1853 as did Newfoundland in 1865. In 1873, Germany changed over to the gold standard in conjunction with the new gold mark coin. The United States changed over to gold de facto in the same year, and over the next 35 years, all other nations changed to gold, leaving only China and the British colonies of Hong Kong and Weihaiwei on the silver standard. The silver standard finally came to an end when it was abandoned by China and Hong Kong in 1935.

Sorry Alby but you are making the points against fiat...and every day we get closer to fiat collapse.

Question is...will the last be the first to go back to Gold ? (its only been 10 or so years since the Swiss gave up their Gold (40%) standard).

Maybe the last will be the first ?

Aquan
05-30-2011, 08:23 PM
Question is...will the last be the first to go back to Gold ? (its only been 10 or so years since the Swiss gave up their Gold (40%) standard.

Maybe the last will be the first ?


Yes and since the year 2000 Switzerland has gone down in bascially all aspect of life.

Before that Switzerland had a properpous real economy with almost zero unemployement and high wages even for the workers based on justice and common sense.

Number 47
05-30-2011, 09:31 PM
Yes and since the year 2000 Switzerland has gone down in bascially all aspect of life.

Before that Switzerland had a properpous real economy with almost zero unemployement and high wages even for the workers based on justice and common sense.

Common sense was given the same title as gold a few decades ago.

A barberous relic.:(

ShineSoFine
05-30-2011, 11:32 PM
Saying a low rate of inflation is harmless is like saying stealing just small amount every so often from everyones savings is harmless.

Yes I care if I save $1 and it is worth 50 cents 20 years later. I should be able to take wealth from my youth to my old age without half of it being stolen.

And if not for bankers, politicians and common thieves, you could.....but then, I repeat myself.

Aquan
05-31-2011, 04:37 AM
Common sense was given the same title as gold a few decades ago.

A barberous relic.:(

Good said, common said was worth gold!

Lack of it will sadly lead to a complete mess on a local, global and universal level of life.

ShineSoFine
05-31-2011, 05:44 AM
If this happens, the actor, "Mr. T" will be wearing well over a million dollars around his neck. :D