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View Full Version : US will switch to IMF SDR currency after 2012


Silvercoin
05-25-2011, 10:33 PM
I'm more and more convinced that the IMF is going to play a role in the devaluation of the US dollar. This will take place after 2012 so its not as obvious in the public conciousness that banking crooks have offloaded their losses onto taxpayer & savers - who will bare the brunt of this loss of purchasing power.

This will happen via substitution of the dollar for the SDR currency - worthless fiat toilet paper issued by the IMF. It has a number of 'benefits' :

1) China gets to offload its mountain of dollars onto the world without significant decline in its value as they are offloading.

2) US can devalue the dollar against the SDR shortly thereafter thereby lessening the loss to China (so they don't retaliate) but increasing the loss to Americans holding dollars, savers of dollars around the world and other US debt holders.

3) Central banking crooks (like the federal reserve) can play their games and bail out their cronies one level higher at the IMF beyond the scrutiny of the voters. The IMF is not answerable to Congress and no laws exists to prosecute these central banking criminals at that level.

You can already see Tim Geithner rushing to the defence of the IMF after the sex scandal - which was some much needed bad publicity for the IMF. Plus the pretence/drama going on about the selection of an IMF chief (who will sure as hell be some European yet again) to pretend as if the selection process is international in scope when in fact its just the same old. This is to bamboozle other countries into accepting the SDR as a global currency which will primarily be controlled by the same bunch of banking crooks who ran western economies amuck.

After the 2012 election, watch for talk about an international currency/IMF and CNN spinning propaganda about how this will be good for all of us.

insidedealer
05-25-2011, 10:51 PM
This thread will probably go ignored, but as far as I'm concerned you're right. That's the plan. Give it 1-2 months after the Nov. 2012 election and then in the immortal words of Dr. Warren, "All xxxx gonna' break loose".

145bluesman
05-25-2011, 10:59 PM
The thousand dollar question is how will this effect the price of metals, And the legality of the public holding PM's

Silvercoin
05-25-2011, 11:08 PM
If you look at the major economies of the world

US, Europe, China, Japan, India, Russia, Brazil

none of the above are major producers of gold. I'm reasonably sure that most will go along with the idea of discouraging the use of gold as money if some SDR is put in place. But what's in it for other economies to get on board this SDR if its main intent is to offload US debt onto their backs.

Well the upside is they get to be part of this "reserve currency" racket that was a prilveledge of the US alone for so long (or so these other countries will be led to believe - i think they will be conned in the end but anyway..). The downside is that as US gives up this priveledge, it is the people in America who suffer that loss.

I believe the propaganda behind this SDR which will be pumped by CNN..etc. will be that its needed to ensure balance of trade - i.e. it will help America export more to China.

However the real reason is to offload the losses of banking crooks onto savers & taxpayers. And insidedealer is right - all hell gone break loose!

Hammer
05-26-2011, 01:22 AM
Oooooh, lots of conspiracy...............elections November 2012, new currency by the IMF maybe, Federal Reserves 100 year contract with the American people up for renew December 2012. Will the Fed get booted out by a new currency and lose the contract to print US money or will they get the contract to print the new money or still alive US dollars that noone wants ? Helluva lot at stake - Popcorn time !

Old Indian saying says, "He wot controls the money supply, makes the roolz."

having said that, I would recommend this thread for a better more thought out proposition than mine, especially silvercoins comments.

https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=84606


lol. edit, just realized that silvercoin started this thread !

The Quiet Type
05-26-2011, 02:43 AM
If you look at the major economies of the world

US, Europe, China, Japan, India, Russia, Brazil

none of the above are major producers of gold.

China is the world's largest gold producer.

Silvercoin
05-26-2011, 02:58 AM
China is the world's largest gold producer.

I know but they only have (or claim to have) 1000 tons of gold reserves. Given that they mine about 250 tons a year despite being the largest producer, it will still take a very long time to get to what the US (claims to) have (approx 6500 tons).

In a sense, they are not a major producer (or I should say holder rather than producer) of gold.

Therefore they are at a serious disadvantage if US devalues the dollar and switches to gold. Of the countries in the list, it serves almost no country's interest (including the US) to see gold as a currency because none are major holders of gold. Only one ironically with a lot of gold is the US which is happier printing tons of paper and devaluing rather than starting a gold standard and spending away its gold.

saigoned
05-26-2011, 03:29 AM
If you look at the major economies of the world

US, Europe, China, Japan, India, Russia, Brazil

none of the above are major producers of gold. I'm reasonably sure that most will go along with the idea of discouraging the use of gold as money if some SDR is put in place. But what's in it for other economies to get on board this SDR if its main intent is to offload US debt onto their backs.


Really I am pretty sure I have visited a few mines in China in the last few years and from what I hear they are one of THE main producers of Gold!

Moonstruck
05-26-2011, 10:49 AM
So many 1/2 truths, so little time.

tekhen
05-26-2011, 11:36 AM
keep an eye on this group and its policies
Bank for International Settlements (http://www.bis.org/stability.htm)

what it boils down to is austerity. there is no way around it given the barrons who control the money stream. I was reading a newsletter and it stated that if the US was to stop taking on debt at this moment @ 14+trillion$ and started to pay off said debt @ 1million$/day it would take more than 38,000 years to pay off said debt. tax... tax... tax...

with unemployment on the rise, how can the FED and its muscle(the IRS) continue to bring in enough for the US to at the very least pay down on the interest?

My new buzz word is 'RESET' the Federal Reserve Note has had its run... we are sitting at the value of a USD being at under $0.20 from its inception.

If there is nothing to keep the paper/click of the button in its place we will be back where we started be it USD, EURO and/or SDR.

galtbob
05-26-2011, 12:45 PM
So many 1/2 truths, so little time.

+1 :eek:

packrat
05-26-2011, 01:05 PM
My question is if we moved to the gold and silver standard witch is what i think that IMF guy that got busted was working on.

What would that do to the price of physical gold and silver?

If it goes up wont the price of food and everything go up?
What would that do to property values would it start going up or down more?

I understand gold and silver is for saving wealth but personally i think silver is beyond that point and is now so low compared to where it i think it should be that its the only one that will make me money.

tekhen
05-26-2011, 01:33 PM
My question is if we moved to the gold and silver standard witch is what i think that IMF guy that got busted was working on.

What would that do to the price of physical gold and silver?

If it goes up wont the price of food and everything go up?
What would that do to property values would it start going up or down more?

I understand gold and silver is for saving wealth but personally i think silver is beyond that point and is now so low compared to where it i think it should be that its the only one that will make me money.

when FDR 'outlawed' the ownership of Au, it went from 20USD to 35USD. My guess is we will see another depreciation of fiat once converted (in recent times see Argentina).

So 100FRNs might become 70(insert new named currency here) and PMs will go up just as in '33, where 1ozt Au will be 100 to 150(new name currency)

we shall see

AlbyVA
05-26-2011, 02:00 PM
I'm more and more convinced that the IMF is going to play a role in the devaluation of the US dollar.



There is a push by some unknown hand in world economic circles get the
nations of the world to adopt the IMF's (SDRs) as the world's reserve
currency.

Personally, its a foolish idea because we would then have to start settling
debts with SDRs and that would be bad news if we are running a deficit
of SDRs in our treasury. We might as well use Gold as a world reserve
currency if we are going to use SDRs.

Westerner
05-26-2011, 02:24 PM
I wouldn't be surprised regarding the OP.

BUT for those that think we the USA and all of North America, does not have as much if not more gold and other PMs in the ground as the rest of the world, better think again. The PNW is the mother of all AU loads.

OTOH, South America has the most AG in the world still in the ground.

Numisgold
05-26-2011, 03:53 PM
The OP's premise could be correct. But besides the 300 tons per year that China actually mines, we have no clue how much they are buying from producers outside of China. It could be just as large an amount. Chinese investors pulled in 571 tons of gold in 2010. Now while that quantity is not going to the state, it is held in Chinese hands. The total quantity of gold held by China and its people is arguably more important than the quantity held by the Central Bank. They would well be growing it on the order of 1,000 tons per year.

The USA is the world's 4th largest gold producer.....80% of that coming from Nevada. Hence, Nevada is the world's 4th largest gold producer.

Numisgold

Silvercoin
05-27-2011, 12:10 AM
they can't be buying very much as they would move prices. even 10 billion going in gold would move prices up sharply.

the best they can do is expand their domestic production and consume it all.

galtbob
05-27-2011, 10:14 AM
they can't be buying very much as they would move prices. even 10 billion going in gold would move prices up sharply.

the best they can do is expand their domestic production and consume it all.

Move prices? You mean like this ???

http://charts.dacharts.net/2011-05-27/galtbob67.png

Numisgold
05-27-2011, 10:44 AM
they can't be buying very much as they would move prices. even 10 billion going in gold would move prices up sharply.
the best they can do is expand their domestic production and consume it all.

Since most of what is moving the price of gold upwards is investment demand rather than industrial/consumer demand that's a rather difficult thing to track. If China were consuming 30-100% of the recycled scrap showing up each year (500-1500 tons recycled annually) it would be hard to track where that's going. What if they were the final recipient of all the ****4**** schemes? In the first quarter of 2009 scrap gold reached an amazing 594 tons. The GFMS can reasonable track gold miner production, but how about all the world's recycled gold, especially jewelry? The world's biggest "miner" is the recycler.

Numisgold

Silvercoin
05-28-2011, 03:06 PM
There is no way China could have got 500 tons of scrap gold in 1 year.

It took then 8 years from 2000 to 2008 to accumulate 500 tons of gold in stealth so how could they have got 500 tons in 1 year since then especially since investment demand has climbed?

Secretly China feared in 2008 that the US with 6500+ tons of gold might dump the dollar and switch to a gold backed currency. With only 1000 tons in their reserve, they would be at a disadvantage if the US suddenly did this.

China originally claimed to have only 500 tons but suddenly announced in 2008 that they had an additional 500 tons which they had accumulated in stealth. Reason they did that is because they feared the US might dump the dollar if it felt China was at a 13:1 rather than 6:1 disadvantage in terms of gold.

Even if China consumes their entire domestic mine production which is merely 250 tons per year, it would take many decades to catch up with the US stock pile by which time the US would be even further ahead.

In order to not provoke hostilities with China by declaring their mountain of paper dollars worthless overnight, the US will give them some time to accumulate gold. That will offset the loss of their paper dollars which US plans to inflate away after a switch to worthless IMF SDRs. But they wont be allowed to accumulate too much gold because US wants to maintain a large enough lead over them to remain the #1 superpower. I suspect the US has far more than the 6500 tons it claims and so too Canada.

galtbob
05-28-2011, 03:45 PM
In order to not provoke hostilities with China by declaring their mountain of paper dollars worthless overnight, the US will give them some time to accumulate gold. That will offset the loss of their paper dollars which US plans to inflate away after a switch to worthless IMF SDRs. But they wont be allowed to accumulate too much gold because US wants to maintain a large enough lead over them to remain the #1 superpower. I suspect the US has far more than the 6500 tons it claims and so too Canada.

You sure have a different view of the intelligence of our government than I do. I suspect we have a lot less gold than claimed. And they are not waiting for the Chinese, the Chinese are waiting until they have a negligible amount of US dollars left. They are spending their dollars and buying the world and stockpiling anything thay can as an inflation hedge. They are even buying and dumping iron ore in the ocean for use later.

SnakeEater
05-28-2011, 04:16 PM
You sure have a different view of the intelligence of our government than I do. I suspect we have a lot less gold than claimed. And they are not waiting for the Chinese, the Chinese are waiting until they have a negligible amount of US dollars left. They are spending their dollars and buying the world and stockpiling anything thay can as an inflation hedge. They are even buying and dumping iron ore in the ocean for use later.


The concept of government of governments have proven great failures now. Do not put too much hope to UN or IMF with their status quo. If you cannot trust USD which can still buy something, what FIAT SDR worth in principle? The FIAT is not even back by military power like USD do.

Forget about SDR where you can just buying to resolve structural problems due to FIAT with another FIAT. What confidence with a rapist "chosen" by all countries as IMF leader. What a joke. Changing a new head does not solves the inherent problem with IMF which is not producing any value instead of a artificial Bank back by nothing.

johndaniels
05-28-2011, 04:42 PM
Oooooh, lots of conspiracy...............elections November 2012, new currency by the IMF maybe, Federal Reserves 100 year contract with the American people up for renew December 2012. Will the Fed get booted out by a new currency and lose the contract to print US money or will they get the contract to print the new money or still alive US dollars that noone wants ? Helluva lot at stake - Popcorn time !

Old Indian saying says, "He wot controls the money supply, makes the roolz."

having said that, I would recommend this thread for a better more thought out proposition than mine, especially silvercoins comments.

https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=84606


lol. edit, just realized that silvercoin started this thread !


Rest assured, the answers to those question are already answered at the top of the pyramid...

I have a feeling the Federal Reserve either chooses not to renew, or they are denied a renewed charter... instant dead dollar... watch closely in the year between Dec 11 and Dec 12.... They wouldnt do anything now, so as not to tip off those watching very closely... like the alternative media, and wall street hacks.

Silvercoin
05-28-2011, 04:47 PM
You sure have a different view of the intelligence of our government than I do. I suspect we have a lot less gold than claimed.

If I'm right, the Federal Reserve is not as stupid as we all think (at least I hope not). They will say gold is a barbarous relic in public but would have accumulated vast stock piles of it over the years - just as China has done.

The strategy might be to run up a massive debts with a ton of dollars (IOUs) being paid & accumulated by foreign countries, soak up all the gold in the world in the mean time and then default (inflate away) of those paper IOUs leaving those foreign countries holding the bag.

Now they will hold the bag but it will not be a total wash for them as the US plans to offer them an outlet to convert those dollars into SDRs so they have some recourse but not at the present purchasing power of the dollar.

I think both US and China are lying about the amount of gold they have - with the amount being higher (not lower) that what is claimed. US will give China some time to accumulate gold to offset the destruction of the dollar's value in its transition to an SDR.

The question is will other countries go along with this idea of SDR. Works for China & the US but not clear how it works for the resource producing countries who will surely see the SDR as toilet paper being exchanged for their real resources.

One thing is clear to me is that savers in the US will continue to be pilfered by these central banking crooks.

usc96
05-28-2011, 05:09 PM
Won't this be good for debtors? ie. The American people? All those who have mortgages, credit card balances, car loans and student loans denominated in depreciating dollars will come out of this as winners. :cool:

coyotepm
05-28-2011, 05:41 PM
Won't this be good for debtors? ie. The American people? All those who have mortgages, credit card balances, car loans and student loans denominated in depreciating dollars will come out of this as winners. :cool:

Don't think for a second that all of those creditors will just let that debt slide away into oblivion. Remember that most of the time they have provisions to vary the interest rate on any one of those items-- which is why I have resolved that if I have any debt at all, it is at a fixed interest rate.

Any thoughts on this?

Palmbchtom
05-28-2011, 07:29 PM
Alot of great points in here so far, but if I can Add one more part to the year 2012, and the inflation numbers we'll see, and weakness of the dollar....Food..just last Friday, news came out that many parts of the world are in a drought or a Severe drought that has not happen for the past 40 to 50yrs. Droughts in China, and across Europe / Africa...throw in all the late tornado and flood damage and we'll see the buying power of our paper dollars fall like a rock. I can't remember when so many areas of the world had this.
Futures on Commodities these next few weeks and months will make people rethink what a dollar can not buy...
In thailand for past 2 weeks one main gold dealer has been doing a pretty good business in people buying gold. Even some old friends in Austria and back home in USA are buying "some" just in case...
The reaction to higher Food cost could push gold into the $1600 area very easy. JMHO (we might see Food costs jump 10% to 15% between now and 2012...)

p.s. nice vdo to watch if you want
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=acLW1vFO-2Q

gene Daniel
05-28-2011, 09:30 PM
If you look at the major economies of the world

US, Europe, China, Japan, India, Russia, Brazil none of the above are major producers of gold.

Dude, you might want to get your facts straight. China is the world's #1 producer of gold, and Russia produces a bunch too. China mines a butt load of the stuff every year and they still have to import to meet internal demand.

Silvercoin
05-29-2011, 05:18 AM
Dude, you might want to get your facts straight. China is the world's #1 producer of gold, and Russia produces a bunch too. China mines a butt load of the stuff every year and they still have to import to meet internal demand.


You obviously did not read my response to that. It gets tiring having to retype things. It will surfice to say that China has about 1000 tons of gold officially claimed and only mines about 250 tons. Despite being the largest producer & consumer of gold in the world, it will take them many decades to reach the stockpile levels that US has (6500+ tons officially and probably a whole lot more unofficially) - by which time US will be even further ahead.

Silvercoin
05-29-2011, 05:33 AM
Don't think for a second that all of those creditors will just let that debt slide away into oblivion.

I'm pretty sure that's what will happen.

It will happen so fast, they won't have time to understand what happened.

What will happen is a currency dislocation whre the dollar becomes convertable (one way) into SDRs at some fixed rate overnight. This rate won't be market determined for obvious reasons.

No time for the bond market to revolt, they will just be rail roaded off a cliff before they know what hit them.

Gold Standard
05-29-2011, 09:16 AM
If the Dear Leader gets another four years expect metals to soar, at least until he can find a way to confiscate.

At that point the real War on Prosperity starts.

altern8life
05-29-2011, 03:05 PM
We might as well use Gold as a world reserve
currency if we are going to use SDRs.
Since you brought it up:

My personal bet is for gold to be added to the SDR basket as a compromise for some recalcitrant countries and in order to give it more legitimacy in general. We will then conduct all international trade in SDRs while the USD (or its replacement currency) floats...for a time anyway. America will finally get that abject poverty it so desperately craves. The rapid drop in energy use by the US will allow the developing world to continue to grow their economies for a while, leading to everyone saying what a great success the idea was...everyone except for those in the US that is. They will be too busy learning to live like Mexicans. But the bankers will be made whole for their genius in proposing the solution that benefits them the most, and the wealthy won't care about the new poor American peasants anyway. The bankers aren't going to worry too much about who finally winds up owning the slums that were once called suburbia, and all the good properties that matter will have been snapped up by them with their nifty new SDR based currency that they got at a preferential exchange rate before the rest of humanity had a crack at it.

Looking further into my crystal ball, my prediction calls for manipulations of the basket makeup, dwindling resources and the associated wars to eventually kill that model, but that point might still be several decades away. Not sure I'll see it before my time on this planet is up. After this will be a period of confusion and uncertainty with multiple bilaterals between trading partners. Eventually, after the wars wind down, a new empire will establish itself and then its money will become the currency de jure. I think it likely that it will be gold backed, as the fictional wealth that is floating around today will have long since vanished into the ether. We'll likely all be dead and buried before this point though.

SilverTongueDevil
05-29-2011, 06:05 PM
No Fiat currency in the world is safe right now. None Its all under attack with inflation and criminal trading revolutions you name it.

Silvercoin
05-29-2011, 08:58 PM
My personal bet is for gold to be added to the SDR basket as a compromise for some recalcitrant countries and in order to give it more legitimacy in general.

Unless that gold is REDEEMABLE ON DEMAND by ordinary people, the claim that a given currency is backed by gold will just be smoke & mirrors.

By reemable on demand, I mean you (a person not just a govt) have to be able to take the paper, go into a bank and get that gold for whatever amount that gold backed currency is suppose to represent.

Merely claiming that a currency is gold backed and govts have access to it is quackery.

insidedealer
05-29-2011, 09:19 PM
Since you brought it up:

My personal bet is for gold to be added to the SDR basket as a compromise
.
.
Looking further into my crystal ball, my prediction calls for manipulations of the basket makeup, dwindling resources and the associated wars to eventually kill that model, but that point might still be several decades away. Not sure I'll see it before my time on this planet is up. After this will be a period of confusion and uncertainty with multiple bilaterals between trading partners. Eventually, after the wars wind down, a new empire will establish itself and then its money will become the currency de jure. I think it likely that it will be gold backed, as the fictional wealth that is floating around today will have long since vanished into the ether. We'll likely all be dead and buried before this point though.

I agree!!
With your whole post. I just cut out some to save kitco the bandwidth:D
But there's really not much to grin about if you're a peasant American. like all of us here from the USA. Collectively, our standard of living has been declining for awhile now, those of us who are older have seen a dramatic change overall in the US standard for most over the last 30-40 years......and there's no end in sight.
The best we can do is stock up on gold for the most part.

Silvercoin
05-30-2011, 05:39 AM
Since you brought it up:

My personal bet is for gold to be added to the SDR basket as a compromise for some recalcitrant countries and in order to give it more legitimacy in general. We will then conduct all international trade in SDRs while the USD (or its replacement currency) floats...for a time anyway. America will finally get that abject poverty it so desperately craves. The rapid drop in energy use by the US will allow the developing world to continue to grow their economies for a while, leading to everyone saying what a great success the idea was...everyone except for those in the US that is. They will be too busy learning to live like Mexicans. But the bankers will be made whole for their genius in proposing the solution that benefits them the most, and the wealthy won't care about the new poor American peasants anyway. The bankers aren't going to worry too much about who finally winds up owning the slums that were once called suburbia, and all the good properties that matter will have been snapped up by them with their nifty new SDR based currency that they got at a preferential exchange rate before the rest of humanity had a crack at it.

Looking further into my crystal ball, my prediction calls for manipulations of the basket makeup, dwindling resources and the associated wars to eventually kill that model, but that point might still be several decades away. Not sure I'll see it before my time on this planet is up. After this will be a period of confusion and uncertainty with multiple bilaterals between trading partners. Eventually, after the wars wind down, a new empire will establish itself and then its money will become the currency de jure. I think it likely that it will be gold backed, as the fictional wealth that is floating around today will have long since vanished into the ether. We'll likely all be dead and buried before this point though.


Brilliant analysis. I'm quoting it in full to draw everyones' attention to it.

Silvercoin
05-31-2011, 05:05 AM
up..................

Silvercoin
06-04-2011, 01:35 AM
up...

and away!!

Thunderbolt
06-04-2011, 04:58 AM
Then again, in the most adverse situation when everything else fails:
lets do a research on nukes holdings for each country currently.
U need BIG guns to protect your wealth.