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View Full Version : What will happen to silver if President invokes 14th Amendment ???


SilverPutz
07-06-2011, 04:12 PM
What will happen to silver and gold prices if the president invokes the 14th Amendment when it comes to the upcoming debt ceiling issue?

In my opinion, I think this will only enhance silver and gold prices since it would mean, likely, the government will just continue to print fiat dollars and add to the national debt if it did not have to concern itself with the debt ceiling.

Here is a link to this article .........

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marshall-auerback/fiscal-policy-for-the-peo_b_891459.html

dyodd

Thanks .........

galtbob
07-06-2011, 04:18 PM
And exactly how does the 14th Amendement so this?

SilverPutz
07-06-2011, 04:37 PM
Here is a link to different articles regarding the debt ceiling, the 14th Amendment and the president .........

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2011/07/06/obama-skirts-question-on-14th-amendments-place-in-debt-talks/?mod=google_news_blog

http://washingtonexaminer.com/blogs/beltway-confidential/2011/07/obama-refuses-rule-out-14th-amendment-debt-option

dyodd

Thanks .........

eduff999
07-06-2011, 04:54 PM
Now I can say I've read three sentences from the huff. post. If obama goes along with Republicans he will be re-elected, stays with his ideology- not. Following the "14th amendment strategy" would put commodities thru the roof. Could also ignite a civil war. My money is on the right!

ShineSoFine
07-06-2011, 05:09 PM
I got as far as the Huff & Puff News and stopped.
If I want far out fiction, I'll just watch MSNBC.

Curto
07-06-2011, 05:19 PM
What will happen to silver and gold prices if the president invokes the 14th Amendment when it comes to the upcoming debt ceiling issue?

In my opinion, I think this will only enhance silver and gold prices since it would mean, likely, the government will just continue to print fiat dollars and add to the national debt if it did not have to concern itself with the debt ceiling.

Here is a link to this article .........

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marshall-auerback/fiscal-policy-for-the-peo_b_891459.html

dyodd

Thanks .........

If, in fact, the "government" printed and distributed fiat then there would be no debt. As it is, the government prints fiat, sells the paper to the Non-Federal Federal reserve bank who lends the money back to the government with interest. If the treasury would print and distribute debt free paper then the debt problem would disappear along with the parasitic commercial banks.

CashValueRecovery
07-06-2011, 05:36 PM
If, in fact, the "government" printed and distributed fiat then there would be no debt. As it is, the government prints fiat, sells the paper to the Non-Federal Federal reserve bank who lends the money back to the government with interest. If the treasury would print and distribute debt free paper then the debt problem would disappear along with the parasitic commercial banks.

Yes and if the government randomly "distributes" printed paper, with nothing being done to earn it, it would be totally valueless. This is called inflation which we are already getting a taste of. "Debt free paper"? The value behind that dollar is what a person is willing to do for another person in order to receive it in trade be it for a good or service. If you dont do anything of value to receive a government "distributed" dollar then what value will it have when a person will no longer be so inclined to do something for you to earn it, since he can just get a "distributed" dollar instead?

Now im not exactly a fan of "parasitic commercial banks" as you put it but they would also not exist if people were able to work for their future instead of insisting on getting their wants and desires filled instantly. Im 37 years old and besides a 3/4 payed mortgage im otherwise debt free. No college education. No silver spoon, in fact im not sure we had a spoon at all. Hard work and wise choices pay off. Well at least they use to when this country appreciated freedom. Now im an evil, capitalist, racist when just years ago I thought of myself as an example of the american dream. <shrug>

Shame those dirty banks for letting people have things today they cant afford. Haha.

Carpenter
07-06-2011, 05:45 PM
If, in fact, the "government" printed and distributed fiat then there would be no debt. As it is, the government prints fiat, sells the paper to the Non-Federal Federal reserve bank who lends the money back to the government with interest. If the treasury would print and distribute debt free paper then the debt problem would disappear along with the parasitic commercial banks.

Sadly congress will never acomplish this, because in their own words:
"Frankly the banks own the place"
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CZbC_IqWEJY

namwalker
07-06-2011, 08:21 PM
I was in discussion this past w/e about Obama and the 14th Amendment. Considering Obama's reaction to the War Powers act if he invoked (followed) the 14th my group felt that he would possibly be the next Democratic Preseident to be impeached by the House. However, if he were impeached we felt that there were insufficient votes in the Senate to remove him from office. We all felt that only the American people could turn him out of office. If he refused to abide by that vote, then what the Washington Examiner reports could come true.

Andrew Johnson, Bill Clinton, and him would be in the same fix in American history.

Chump Change
07-06-2011, 08:32 PM
In my opinion, I think this will only enhance silver and gold prices since it would mean, likely, the government will just continue to print fiat dollars and add to the national debt if it did not have to concern itself with the debt ceiling.

Here is a link to this article .........

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marshall-auerback/fiscal-policy-for-the-peo_b_891459.html

dyodd

Thanks .........

"...redirect the national conversation to what really matters: fiscal policy that addresses the needs of ordinary Americans."

Doesn't living in a debt free country "address the needs of..." ALL AMERICAN PEOPLE? Now that would be equal justice for all!

Propaganda crap...the Progressives who trash the Constitution and claim it is a list of "Negative" freedoms are now using the Constitution to justify what they claim they are going to do...which we all know they will NOT do. Liars.

Progressives are destroying the country.

I can't wait for the trials...Crimes against Humanity!

HPost...garbage, unfit for my bird cage...destroys the minds of my birds:p

torpedoman
07-06-2011, 08:39 PM
the 14th references LEGAL DEBTS anything over the limit will be illegal.

cds1949
07-06-2011, 09:27 PM
I got as far as the Huff & Puff News and stopped.
If I want far out fiction, I'll just watch MSNBC.

would you believe it?

i watch and read both sides... sticking to one and not to the other does not give you the truth
the truth as you know, is somewhere in the middle

AnotherDave
07-06-2011, 11:32 PM
The 13th Amendment is the one that freed the slaves. The 14th is the one that made them slaves again, along with everybody else that asks for this special treatment from the federal government.

The 14th is the one that gives "privileges and immunities" to "persons" "subject to the jurisdiction". How do you become subject? By agreeing to the contract. The terms are here (http://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/html/amdt14toc_user.html).

You may notice that this special status precludes you from questioning the national debt, or from telling your president what he can and cannot do with the money he takes from you.

But you can talk about it! That's one of the civil rights the Fourteenth gives you. Enjoy!

.

DenariiForMe
07-07-2011, 01:18 AM
Complete nonsense. The 14th in no way gives the President the power to borrow; it expressly grants the Congress that power, as does section 8 of the Constitution. If he does this (which he won't, because the GOP will compromise), he must be impeached.

DenariiForMe
07-07-2011, 01:35 AM
The 13th Amendment is the one that freed the slaves. The 14th is the one that made them slaves again, along with everybody else that asks for this special treatment from the federal government.

The 14th is the one that gives "privileges and immunities" to "persons" "subject to the jurisdiction". How do you become subject? By agreeing to the contract. The terms are here (http://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/html/amdt14toc_user.html).

You may notice that this special status precludes you from questioning the national debt, or from telling your president what he can and cannot do with the money he takes from you.

But you can talk about it! That's one of the civil rights the Fourteenth gives you. Enjoy!

.

I've heard this idea many times, never with an adequate explanation. I see nothing in the 14th amendment as radical as you suggest - would you explain your reasoning please.

I read it as it sounds. "All persons born or naturalized (i.e. human beings, not corporate persons, as they are not born nor can they be naturalized) in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof (i.e. everyone except for diplomats or others with special legal status in the U.S.), are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside (i.e. have the rights, as citizens, enumerated by the federal and state constitutions - e.g. newly freed slaves). Where's the controversy? :confused:

AnotherDave
07-07-2011, 10:49 AM
I've heard this idea many times, never with an adequate explanation. I see nothing in the 14th amendment as radical as you suggest - would you explain your reasoning please.

I read it as it sounds. "All persons born or naturalized (i.e. human beings, not corporate persons, as they are not born nor can they be naturalized) in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof (i.e. everyone except for diplomats or others with special legal status in the U.S.), are citizens of the United States and the State wherein they reside (i.e. have the rights, as citizens, enumerated by the federal and state constitutions - e.g. newly freed slaves). Where's the controversy? :confused:

No controversy at all. It's a contract. You enter the contract by participating. I've shown where you can reference the terms.

Want to be "subject to the jurisdiction"? Eat the free cheese! Declare your fealty on a SS application, voter registration, drivers license, (it usually a declaration in bold letters on the last line) and get "civil rights" as a bonus.

What do you think Washington, Franklin, et al. would say to their being in the federal jurisdiction? They were citizens of their states, not residents!

.

AnotherDave
07-07-2011, 11:01 AM
BTW, if anyone wants to actually read the section talked about in this thread, it starts here (http://www.law.cornell.edu/anncon/html/amdt14toc_user.html) at " SECTIONS 3 AND 4. DISQUALIFICATION AND PUBLIC DEBT", page 1927. Second paragraph.

It says that you, as a person born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the jurisdiction thereof have no standing to question Mr. Obama's decisions regarding the finances of the United States.

.

dukadan
07-08-2011, 06:52 AM
No controversy at all. It's a contract. You enter the contract by participating. I've shown where you can reference the terms.


how do we break the contract? leave the country to not participate?

AnotherDave
07-08-2011, 10:50 AM
how do we break the contract? leave the country to not participate?

Two parts to the answer. The first is to understand that the contract and the 14th Amendment is not the country, and that "subject to the jurisdiction" is not citizenship. State citizenship is still primary, even though almost no one understands or knows how to defend this status.

Second part is how do you break any contract? There is no formally stated way to back out of the 14th Amendment "social contract". That would be too easy! You will have to research common law on contracts and follow those principles; fraud vitiates the most solemn of contracts, refusal to participate in benefits, understand "badges of slavery" and how they identify you with the contract, etc.

.

dukadan
07-08-2011, 05:53 PM
What do you think Washington, Franklin, et al. would say to their being in the federal jurisdiction? They were citizens of their states, not residents!

I have been told I am a resident of a state. For cheaper rates at a university, local perks..

State citizenship is still primary, even though almost no one understands or knows how to defend this status.

I must be one who doesn't understand how to defend this status and how this separates one from badges of slavery. One would have to quit using dollars and still somehow live?

Yield2Greatness
07-08-2011, 07:00 PM
Unfortunately, Obama has shown that there is no limit to how far he will compromise. The debt limit will be raise and it will be on the GOP's terms. :mad:

HardlyPeeved
07-08-2011, 07:07 PM
If they interpret this to mean that the debt limit is unconstitutional...they have rocks in their head.

'The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for the payments of pension and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion' -- this is the important thing -- 'shall not be questioned.

All this is saying is that the debt can not be avoided by fiat, or ignored by the government, or waived.

The debt is real...that all this is saying.

The debt can not be ignored.

How does a debt limit...contradict the truth "the debt is real"...

crazy politricks.


They must think we are really not able to read or understand logic.


The debt limit just enforces the fact that the debt must eventually be limited and dealth with.


It would be unconstitutional not to have a debt limit !!


P.S. there is going to be a 3-way traffic jam...already setup...and no one is getting out of their car or getting out of the way.

I see where they are starting to dance on their car roofs !!

No exit.
https://www.kitcomm.com/showthread.php?t=87061&highlight=debt+limit

AnotherDave
07-08-2011, 08:08 PM
I have been told I am a resident of a state. For cheaper rates at a university, local perks..



You were probably told if you didn't sign something, you wouldn't get those cheap rates and goodies. So, you signed the document, and declared yourself to be a resident.

Residency is a privilege, not a right. Please fill out the rest of these forms, and pay at the window.

.

opiumbox2000
07-08-2011, 08:10 PM
We are in deep trouble

The rapids are approaching

Not much longer now