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View Full Version : German 'Silver' is not real silver


coolgenner
01-26-2012, 08:01 AM
I was perusing eBay for fun and came across German 'Silver'. At first I though it came from Germany, then I thought it may be the name of the company minting it. Nope. In fact German 'Silver' is nothing but a copper alloy with nickel and zinc.

They were honest in the auction about what it was, but if you don't read the fine print or pay attention to what you are buying, you can be wasting your money. Be careful out there!

Forgive me if this is common knowledge, I just passed my first anniversary of stacking and am constantly learning.

Here's to a great week!

Feral child
01-26-2012, 08:03 AM
Worth the repetition with so many scammers out there, thanks ;)

Westerner
01-26-2012, 08:19 AM
AKA... Nickel silver...

hxxp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nickel_silver

g4zuk
01-26-2012, 08:42 AM
Also gem silver, argentina silver, tibetan silver..

I once saw a tibetan silver ingot on the bay , advert said 80% silver. for sale at ~ 1/4 spot. I mailed them, they 'confirmed' it was 80% silver.

yes, you have to be careful

Spartikis
01-26-2012, 09:57 AM
"Chinese silver" is a scam too.

Westerner
01-26-2012, 09:59 AM
And ABX, HL... etc...:rolleyes:

amanda
01-26-2012, 10:00 AM
Silver is also a color

Barbuyer
01-26-2012, 10:12 AM
You should by some German silver. It goes well with Naugahyde, and diamels.:D

I like to pay for mine with .999 gold clad coins.

redraspberry
01-26-2012, 10:21 AM
You should by some German silver. It goes well with Naugahyde, and diamels.:D

I like to pay for mine with .999 gold clad coins.

Containing 14mg of pure gold......

HighInBC
01-26-2012, 11:10 AM
I wonder if ebays new policyon on replica coins will cover this kind of BS. Doubt it.

lustrous potentate
01-26-2012, 12:59 PM
You should by some German silver. It goes well with Naugahyde, and diamels.:D

I like to pay for mine with .999 gold clad coins.


Is that you, Mr. Furley?

Holy_Peanuts
01-26-2012, 01:10 PM
I wonder if ebays new policyon on replica coins will cover this kind of BS. Doubt it.

Why would they? It isnt BS, nickel silver has been around for centuries... The buyer should have some responsibility to know what it is they are purchasing. Knowledge is power..

Barbuyer
01-26-2012, 03:47 PM
Is that you, Mr. Furley?

Yep-it's me. I'm just sitting here at my computer, dressed in my light blue leisure suit, drinking a couple of pink flamingos.

Good day!

MorganPSLV
01-26-2012, 03:54 PM
"Chinese silver" is a scam too.if they have interenet and ebay back then, german silver scam will exist too

HighInBC
01-26-2012, 04:12 PM
Why would they? It isnt BS, nickel silver has been around for centuries... The buyer should have some responsibility to know what it is they are purchasing. Knowledge is power..

I say it is bs. They untentionally misrepresent their items as silver hoping to fool those who are not aware that the name is false. I say it has been bs for centuries. Being around a long time does not legitimize a scam.

They list them as "1oz coin. 999 German Silver". Then they follow pricing for real silver.

How can an alloy be 999? How can can you tell this from real silver from Germany?

BS to the max, it should be illegal. A lie is a lie.

coolgenner
01-26-2012, 05:03 PM
I agree, I think the .999 is what made me examine the auction more. I don't think german silver should be able to be .999 at all.

cilurnum
01-26-2012, 07:12 PM
This is why I only buy from and have a network of defined and reputable sources who I have some trust in, both in terms of buying and in terms of selling. Sorry, but I just won't do the eBay thing because it's too much time and effort and there is too much scope for scams. Too much risk. I certainly pay more but it's worth it and I only buy internationally recognised .999 silver coins I can have a long hard look at.

Rest assured that this kind of misinformation about 'silver' (or not silver, as the case may be) will be extremely rife once precious metals buying kicks off in the general population. Most will not have the slightest clue what to buy, what form in which to buy it and how much it is actually worth.

AgAuCaliente
01-26-2012, 08:08 PM
also beware of the .999 100 mils crap...so many scams out there that prey on the one thing that has been common throughout all of history: GREED and Laziness--that desire to make a quick buck RIGHT NOW.
THanks for the posting OP

SILVER PATRON
01-26-2012, 10:39 PM
The name German silver or nickel silver is misleading since it has no silver con*tent, but is an alloy of 60 per cent copper, 20 per cent nickel and 20 per cent zinc. It resembles silver but instead of the soft white colour it has a yellow-grey tinge.

German silver is used exten*sively in the hollow-ware and flatware industries as E.P.N.S. (electro-plated nickel silver), which is a nickel silver item with a plating of silver. Nickel silver is slightly more difficult to work for jewelry purpose, than copper and other metals, since it is a harder alloy. Again it is prone to tarnish on exposure to air and will turn the skin green with prolonged contact.

Heaven forbid - what's gypsy silver?

Chadilac
01-27-2012, 04:20 AM
As I have said since I have been hear, counterfits will get better and better and this has been proven to be true. This is one of the biggest bearish factors to silver, especially when paper price disconnects with physical. :D :)

Flooding the market with excellent counterfits will be the gobernants last ditch effort to keep the middle class out so they can go down with ship. Be prepared for media top stories about metal counterfits.:eek:

Westerner
01-27-2012, 04:35 AM
As I have said since I have been hear, counterfits will get better and better and this has been proven to be true. This is one of the biggest bearish factors to silver, especially when paper price disconnects with physical. :D :)

Flooding the market with excellent counterfits will be the gobernants last ditch effort to keep the middle class out so they can go down with ship. Be prepared for media top stories about metal counterfits.:eek:

Agree, also the plight of the poor slave baby miners who work all day for a bit of bread in tim buck two... All barbaric, industrial, rich and greedy mans metal. On and on....

Chadilac
01-27-2012, 04:58 AM
Agree, also the plight of the poor slave baby miners who work all day for a bit of bread in tim buck two... All barbaric, industrial, rich and greedy mans metal. On and on....

That went mainstream about a month and half ago to try discourage religous and general humanitarian people from buying. Yes I agree the mainstream media will re-visit this story as well. What surprised me about those stories waz that they showed the children working pullies above ground and the more experienced older miners were working in deep worm holes. Maybe they are saving the children working in worm holes until later. As well as emphizing the chance of a collapse, they will find, a younger child to interview who's brother died in a collapsed worm hole. Play the angle of "Think of the children." The corrupt goverments can be an open book if one knows how to read them.:D :)

I believe the government has cia on the ground in China, refinining counterfit processes as well as distribution networks and potentially, at a sofistication level eqivalent enough to start stockpiling. Probably have officially minting equilivilent minting equipment shipped in or designed and engineered there. As well as the all important stamps of the most popular coins and rounds. If it's not going on now; it will be black oped very soon. :eek:

MattFish68
10-08-2012, 03:51 PM
Just bought a bar with the buffalo on it. Got me one troy ounce of ".999 Fine German Silver"

I should have known better. I picked out one generic that was sterling and didn't buy, but saw the .999 Fine and didn't look any further.......

I shouldn't make these rookie mistakes......

18347

18348

Feral child
10-08-2012, 03:57 PM
Just bought a bar with the buffalo on it. Got me one troy ounce of ".999 Fine German Silver"

I should have known better. I picked out one generic that was sterling and didn't buy, but saw the .999 Fine and didn't look any further.......

I shouldn't make these rookie mistakes......

18347

18348


http://www.fullmetalbullion.com/german-silver-1-oz-bar-buffalo-design/?ref=lexity&_vs=google&_vm=product-search&adtype=pla&gclid=CLqCkMiZ8rICFeeDQgodficApQ ;)

Pretty bar though if not too costly.

ThePMetalStacker
10-08-2012, 03:59 PM
Why would they? It isnt BS, nickel silver has been around for centuries... The buyer should have some responsibility to know what it is they are purchasing. Knowledge is power..

Don't you love how they price it a hair above spot to make it seem like a great deal when it's actually worthless. Same with all the idiots selling misc clad garbage on the bay.

MattFish68
10-08-2012, 04:02 PM
Paid $33 bucks for it, but got one maple for $33 and some 90% for 22xFace, so I still did ok, just would have been better if I would have left that german silver behind.

ajwgator
10-08-2012, 04:12 PM
Holy buffalo crap! From Feral Child's link above...German Silver 1 Troy Ounce Bar- Buffalo Design $9.95

Product Description

1 oz. of german silver in a classic buffalo design bar. This is an alloy of 60% copper, 20% nickel and 20% zinc. It contains no silver.

Hope you didn't pay much more than that....

SecretArgentMan
10-08-2012, 04:14 PM
Back when silver was rising really fast a few years back I liked to browse the antique stores to see if I could spot some under-priced sterling.

Well I came across this really nice Danish piece, but it had hallmarks, not .925, since it was Danish, right?

So I asked the lady what the hallmarks meant, and she was absolutely sure that was the hallmark for sterling.

Turns out, it's the hallmark for silver plate, as I found out when I got home with my lovely new purchase.

*sigh* ... homework... :P

MattFish68
10-08-2012, 04:30 PM
Guess that is what I get for calling people Fools that say 40% halves are worthless and not worth holding etc....... Guess I was the FOOL today buying a $33 piece of true junk......

jdmt37
10-08-2012, 04:53 PM
Guess that is what I get for calling people Fools that say 40% halves are worthless and not worth holding etc....... Guess I was the FOOL today buying a $33 piece of true junk......

I made the mistake of jumping on one, untill i read this forum. Retracted my bid asap.

captainsilverton
10-08-2012, 05:11 PM
it is as bad as the 100% .999 clad silver bars... that say even .999 silver and only on the reverse does it say clad...all over the bay now, again, still.


tricks galore out there.

INCT

MattFish68
10-08-2012, 05:13 PM
It's a shame that people actually go that far out of the way to try to scam people out of their money........

Metal Is Real
10-08-2012, 05:33 PM
I used to think that pewter was silver until I read the Wiki page about it last weekend and it said that it was almost all tin. Wow, I didn't know that!:o

SecretArgentMan
10-08-2012, 05:42 PM
I used to think that stainless steel was silver, until I ... ... no, not really. Just joking. :)

captainsilverton
10-08-2012, 05:50 PM
It's a shame that people actually go that far out of the way to try to scam people out of their money........

i think it is as bad, as the the bay policing is not better !!...some folks bid at last minute, whatever...it is very deceptive..it is a bad scene.

INCT

MattFish68
10-08-2012, 05:52 PM
Now what do I do with the thing....... now that it is in my stack......:confused:

captainsilverton
10-08-2012, 06:10 PM
Now what do I do with the thing....... now that it is in my stack......:confused:

it is a trophy that shows you , that you will never do it again...i have bought fakes in many antiquities, knowingly a few times to show others...it just stinks...

can you not take it up with the seller? ....plead if you may? probably not your style, nor mine i guess for the amount of money..

INCT

MattFish68
10-08-2012, 06:16 PM
I always get great deals from this seller. I don't want to ruin a good thing. I will mention to him, and I'm thinking he will give me an extra deal on something else in the future.

He has mis-charged me and I returned to pay him for the ounces he mis counted. I bring him some treats some times, it's a good relationship that I will mention to him, but am not going back to make a stink and have him get discusted with the thing either.

Clatman
10-08-2012, 06:19 PM
Now what do I do with the thing....... now that it is in my stack......:confused:



it is a trophy that shows you , that you will never do it again

This. It is a harsh reminder to be more careful in the future.

captainsilverton
10-08-2012, 06:34 PM
I always get great deals from this seller. I don't want to ruin a good thing. I will mention to him, and I'm thinking he will give me an extra deal on something else in the future.

He has mis-charged me and I returned to pay him for the ounces he mis counted. I bring him some treats some times, it's a good relationship that I will mention to him, but am not going back to make a stink and have him get discusted with the thing either.

it does already sound like a good relationship.... i know if one slipped by me and sold, i would make good on it with out feeling like the buyer was doing anything but the right thing.. i am sure he likes to keep a good reputation.. relationships are important, foster it as you will and see fit..

INCT

MattFish68
10-08-2012, 10:16 PM
it does already sound like a good relationship.... i know if one slipped by me and sold, i would make good on it with out feeling like the buyer was doing anything but the right thing.. i am sure he likes to keep a good reputation.. relationships are important, foster it as you will and see fit..

INCT

I'm sure he will make things right in some way or another. He already has with great past purchases and I'm sure I'll continue to get good purchases from him.

I wish I had more connections like him, nice guy, friendly, and great person to conduct business with. I'll have to let him know just so he doesn't buy any more.

captainsilverton
10-08-2012, 10:32 PM
exactly... well put, astutely so..., follow this, and gain a few more like him, you sound industrious and studious...it is part of stacking ...you each gain i imagine...

INCT

MattFish68
10-08-2012, 11:22 PM
yes Sir Capt.

He buys, turns it quickly to me and we both win.

Silvergoblin
10-09-2012, 10:17 AM
Not sure if this has been covered....but alpaca silver is likened to german silver....a lady yesterday got very irate with me when I told her that her stuff was basically worthless....but she said that since it had the word silver, it must be and that I was a fool....

I got a bit upset and told her that the only way this had silver was if she wrapped the sterling necklace she was wearing around it....but I was wrong, her necklace was german silver not sterling......:eek:

Silvergoblin
10-09-2012, 10:20 AM
it is a trophy that shows you , that you will never do it again...i have bought fakes in many antiquities, knowingly a few times to show others...it just stinks...

can you not take it up with the seller? ....plead if you may? probably not your style, nor mine i guess for the amount of money..

INCT

I have a full set of flatware set that sits on my desk reminding me that some things that glitter.........are sometimes heavily plated and stamped sterling!

Keeps my head on straighter...

Hunter
10-09-2012, 10:27 AM
Not sure if this has been covered....but alpaca silver is likened to german silver....a lady yesterday got very irate with me when I told her that her stuff was basically worthless....but she said that since it had the word silver, it must be and that I was a fool....

I got a bit upset and told her that the only way this had silver was if she wrapped the sterling necklace she was wearing around it....but I was wrong, her necklace was german silver not sterling......:eek:

German silver can be confused, I think it can be in different composition, it can be similar to nickel silver that has no silver, or can be similar to sterling that has 835/1000 or better percentage of silver. I don't buy German silver, but that is how I understood it.

The similar classes of "silver" I saw mentioned here was the Tibetain, Agentina and most of the Chinese new items. There is also Miao silver (Chinese), melchoir (Russia) usualy stamped as MUH. There maybe more from middle East they appeared to be the origin of "white metals".

ParlayTheHard8
10-09-2012, 10:39 AM
I think that the thread title has the quotation marks placed incorrectly. Instead of German "silver", should be "German silver". If you know the term, you shouldn't get suckered.

MattFish68
10-09-2012, 11:02 AM
I think that the thread title has the quotation marks placed incorrectly. Instead of German "silver", should be "German silver". If you know the term, you shouldn't get suckered.

I agree, you shouldn't get suckered, unless you do it like I did, and scan the items a bit too quick......

MattFish68
10-09-2012, 12:55 PM
exactly... well put, astutely so..., follow this, and gain a few more like him, you sound industrious and studious...it is part of stacking ...you each gain i imagine...

INCT

This guy I get stuff from gets ASE's now and then. I usually leave them behind cause I don't want to pay a premium for them. as of yesterday he had like 6 of them in there and wanted $40 each for them. I don't know if I should be buying them just to keep getting the other silver ( generic and 90% and 40% ) at below spot out the door....

Anyone have thoughts on that ? $6 over spot on them seems crazy to me.

bossandy
10-09-2012, 02:38 PM
My LCS sell ASE for 4 over. Ask yourself this. Is $6 over crazier than $30 German Silver? Piece-of-mind, priceless.

Bossandy

Feral child
10-09-2012, 04:50 PM
This guy I get stuff from gets ASE's now and then. I usually leave them behind cause I don't want to pay a premium for them. as of yesterday he had like 6 of them in there and wanted $40 each for them. I don't know if I should be buying them just to keep getting the other silver ( generic and 90% and 40% ) at below spot out the door....

Anyone have thoughts on that ? $6 over spot on them seems crazy to me.

You'd be doing yourself no favors at that price- you could probably buy 10 of them from an online PM retailer and have them shipped for that price, better with a greater quantity.

MattFish68
10-09-2012, 05:41 PM
My LCS sell ASE for 4 over. Ask yourself this. Is $6 over crazier than $30 German Silver? Piece-of-mind, priceless.

Bossandy

Ouch.....
But true.......

bossandy
10-09-2012, 05:51 PM
MattFish68,

Sorry, didn’t mean to be harsh, hope you were not offended. A old friend of mine told me this years ago, “Shortcuts will only get you into trouble faster.” I say this to myself all the time when I need to slow down. This is one reason I will not buy on the bay anymore, I need to see it my hand.

Bossandy

MattFish68
10-09-2012, 05:56 PM
MattFish68,

Sorry, didn’t mean to be harsh, hope you were not offended. A old friend of mine told me this years ago, “Shortcuts will only get you into trouble faster.” I say this to myself all the time when I need to slow down. This is one reason I will not buy on the bay anymore, I need to see it my hand.

Bossandy

Nope - No offence taken ! I need to remember your saying and my kids probably could get some use out of that too !

Silvergoblin
10-10-2012, 11:24 AM
German silver can be confused, I think it can be in different composition, it can be similar to nickel silver that has no silver, or can be similar to sterling that has 835/1000 or better percentage of silver. I don't buy German silver, but that is how I understood it.

The similar classes of "silver" I saw mentioned here was the Tibetain, Agentina and most of the Chinese new items. There is also Miao silver (Chinese), melchoir (Russia) usualy stamped as MUH. There maybe more from middle East they appeared to be the origin of "white metals".



If it is German in origin and silver, it should bear at least a number mark... 800, 835, 900, 925, 950,

without testing an item..a good rule of thumb is that if it aint marked with a known silver symbol (english lion), sterling or a number type grade it aint silver.....walk away from it or test it to be sure...

MattFish68
10-10-2012, 03:19 PM
If it is German in origin and silver, it should bear at least a number mark... 800, 835, 900, 925, 950,

without testing an item..a good rule of thumb is that if it aint marked with a known silver symbol (english lion), sterling or a number type grade it aint silver.....walk away from it or test it to be sure...


Look at the picture on page 3, it does say .999 Fine....