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  #2031  
Old 05-30-2011, 10:19 AM
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Triballus11 Triballus11 is offline
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Thumbs up Thx for the Introduction.

Hey Digbird. Done and done..

I kinda knew links were not kosher but didn't want to spent half an hour figuring out how else to upload pictures. I'll leave that for a cold vinter evening ;-)
Primarily I wanted to start a debate about the "fake-a-bility" of mint pouches and why people seem to put such emphasis on them as a mark of authenticity. The posting were more of a visual than anything else..
In my mind the pouches seem to be the most easy part of an item to fake. Mint mark or no mint mark.
Thanks for the intotext although it was really really introductory. I am 1/3 through the thread by now so it didn't reveal any "nuggets" so to speak.

regards Triballus (Mads Joergensen - Denmark)


Quote:
Originally Posted by digbird View Post
Triballus11: welcome aboard.

Can you please go back and edit out the ebay stuff. Ebay links aren't allowed okay. Them's the rules. I don't want you to start off in the mods bad books..lol. Just go back and click the
"edit" button. You can use the PM (private mail) function for ebay links, photo's etc.



Well..big topic and I'm not familiar with this seller so won't say they are legit or not from the photo's that really don't show the details up close. First before laying out that kind of money, get the "Gold and Silver Panda Coin Buyers Guide" by Peter Anthony and study the photo's with a fine tooth comb. www.pandacollector.com is one place to order it and that site has a wealth of info on fakes etc. Yes..some fake coin sellers do fake the pouches, so be careful. Pouches are just cheap bags to protect the coins from dust, exposure, fingerprints etc., but many have mint seals along the outer edges and these are hard to fake. You can also request better photo's to be emailed to you, if the seller doesn't comply, then skip buying with him. Have a good read here, lots to learn to protect yourself. I'd hold off on that purchase for awhile until you were more comfortable. cheers and welcome
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  #2032  
Old 05-30-2011, 10:39 AM
digbird digbird is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Triballus11 View Post
Hey Digbird. Done and done..

I kinda knew links were not kosher but didn't want to spent half an hour figuring out how else to upload pictures. I'll leave that for a cold vinter evening ;-)
Primarily I wanted to start a debate about the "fake-a-bility" of mint pouches and why people seem to put such emphasis on them as a mark of authenticity. The posting were more of a visual than anything else..
In my mind the pouches seem to be the most easy part of an item to fake. Mint mark or no mint mark.
Thanks for the intotext although it was really really introductory. I am 1/3 through the thread by now so it didn't reveal any "nuggets" so to speak.

regards Triballus (Mads Joergensen - Denmark)
Thank you Triballus, I didn't want you to get into trouble on your first post..a hearty welcome to you. Yes you are right, they could easily forge the pouches, but so far they haven't put much effort into that. Now if they did, only a rookie would fall prey as most faked coins still have telltale signs or flaws. Only the 2000 mirror is getting harder as they perfect the known flaws. The pouches are just a secondary indicator to me, as one has to take in 1oo% of everything they see as a package..but coin inspection is first and foremost. I place a higher emphasis on (pouches) double sealed more from the point of view to get a better grade of coin, than one that isn't double sealed, and not whether the coin is legit. But at the same time...if a coin is presented with a pouch, I look at that as well. I'll put it this way...there are (99) legit Pandas for every (1) fake out there. Plus a few of us get together and report these fake seller's to keep things a bit cleaner for the potential buyers. cheers and great to see you back here.
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  #2033  
Old 05-30-2011, 11:10 AM
makav31i makav31i is offline
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The 1986 proof panda...This is the pic from the seller ebay...





I tried taking it but the picture looked blurred...I think it is time to buy a macro lens... :P
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  #2034  
Old 05-30-2011, 11:45 AM
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Number 47 Number 47 is offline
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Not happy. The 2000 gangzhou I have had in my watch list just jumped from its 430 buy it now to 691 buy it now.

Was going to buy it on Thursday. Back to the hunting. No slowdown here.
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  #2035  
Old 05-30-2011, 12:20 PM
makav31i makav31i is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Number 47 View Post
Not happy. The 2000 gangzhou I have had in my watch list just jumped from its 430 buy it now to 691 buy it now.

Was going to buy it on Thursday. Back to the hunting. No slowdown here.
I think xuhong should have it but I can't find it in his shop...The last I saw the price is around USD400+ if I am not mistaken...
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  #2036  
Old 05-30-2011, 12:55 PM
jogslvr jogslvr is offline
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Looking at year date 2000 Pandas on ebay lately, I've noticed the frosty 2000 bringing as much or more than the mirrored strike. This is probably due to fear of fakes.

Speaking of gold gilded Panda, I have a 2005 Beijing International Coin and Stamp Expo Panda in capsule with COA. The Panda Guide says mintage was only 30,000. Checking current and completed auctions, I'm surprised that these are not bringing much more $$$$ than I am seeing in the raw.

Perhaps it will take a few more years for these to be more appreciated?

BTW: I'm looking for a nice double sealed '91 and have some interesting Panda trades available for such if anyone should have a surplus '91, Lg or Sm date.
Extra Pandas I have include years; '90, '93, '95, '97, '05, '06, '09.
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  #2037  
Old 05-30-2011, 02:43 PM
afluke afluke is offline
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Thanks DB. I think it was an aftermarket guilding too. They did a nice job and it is a good looking 2000 silver panda. I will keep it in my collection knowing that it is not an original china mint product. I have a guangzhou specimen as well.
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  #2038  
Old 05-30-2011, 02:45 PM
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James007 James007 is offline
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Default agreed.....

Quote:
Originally Posted by makav31i View Post
I think xuhong should have it but I can't find it in his shop...The last I saw the price is around USD400+ if I am not mistaken...
Xu has many doubles. I always write him if I can't find what I am looking for.
Nicest person in the world. And my favorite seller on the bay. Write him a note and I betcha you will be able to get it for under $500.00.
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  #2039  
Old 05-30-2011, 03:12 PM
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James007 James007 is offline
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Default I found a coin!!!

$140.00! I can't remember the last time I got a coin at first bid!
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  #2040  
Old 05-30-2011, 04:43 PM
Emelynkwak Emelynkwak is offline
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Yes they still do get melted with frequency

Alot of these shops arent necesarrily shady or the guys running them, theyre just in it for the quick buck and arent able to adapt their business to run on small margins, large volume. they go for large margins and any volume possible.
For silver regardless of .900, .925 or .999 they only pay 80-85% of spot.
Most of that goes to the smelter except for the BU and proofs, and silver dollars.
When it comes to selling these same coins they generally ask 25% above spot. so yes a 1 oz generic will go for $8 over spot. who will buy that? no one!!
They need to make $300-$400 per day in profit to stay afloat and pay bills and mortgage/rent. you name it. with so many we buy gold shops they dont take in enough scrap to stay afloat. and most have lowered their % of spot payed so they can make more.
If you dont know what your doing theyll take advantage of you.
I saw a kid sell a whole roll of war nickels at one hsop for $4 thats .10 per coin. kid was very happy. Another gentleman sold a 5 gram 24k gold bar pamp-suise still sealed with assay card. he got $200 and walked right on out.
Another older lady came in and said "I paid $500 for a krugerrand here about 12 years ago, how much are they worth now?" the guy told her $1000, mind you gold is $1500 and she went and sold it to him. he couldnt stop grinning.
So if they cant move products they merely melt them, no one approaches them for $1000 fv bags since we have a larger legitimate retail dealer here.
They make $3 per oz of silver they take in so at the end of the week if it hasnt sold it hits the smelter, panda's included. gold especially hits the smelter since theyre eager for the higher profit margins ($60 per oz of .999, $4 per gram of scrap)
I have taken occassional advantages of this, not too many, theyre just way too overpriced, if theyre on their way out to the smelter and I come in, then I can buy anything in theit buckets for spot. yesterday I scored 15 ASE for spot.
Now I do have 2 rolls of 90-99 pandas (2 each per year in each roll) if any of you guys are interested or else im going to take them to my legit lcs who will pay me spot plus $.50 each

Emelyn
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